The "problem" .
 

I have to go fast to catch up to you guys ... want to nail the book quotes, support it with drawings.... leave no room for broken telephone ..

Enter what Lynn calls "the problem".... most golfers dont see this inside -out impact for balls played back of low point. From their perspective , the golfers view in Startup they try to cover the plane line with their clubhead (Steering) and in Start down they try to get over to the plane line to attack the back in a more linear fashion. They go out , over top of the plane in startdown to attack the ball straight on ... along the low point plane line / base line.

Need a drawing from the players perspective of the circular orbit while the clubhead is say two feet away from the ball along the arc of approach with the face sqaure to the arc (lets assume angled hinging for now) and another a second face covering the target line (and it will appear to be directly over the plane line given the golfers perspective while it isnt so when viewed from a DTL perspective) and lets square this second face to the plane line. The arc of approach will appear curved to a degree in accordance to the plane angle what do we want elbow ... lets make it a lower one to accentuate the curved nature of the arc for illustrative purposes .... not to scale . Scale makes all this stuff look insignificant interestingly.... when it isnt , not at all. Note how the Steered face is taking a higher plane angle , nearly vertical when viewed DTL , not quite vertical as its planed though the golfers eyes.


Remember extension , low to the ground , square to square . Thats the triad of Steering .

Its born of false logic! These drawings are trying to show the correct path of the clubhead and the face angle.

How much movement of the ball back of low point can there be before these "problems" occur? Too much, and the player will mentally move the low point back and wreck their Impact Alignments. &B:

There's a reason why some the best players in history played the ball in one location.

True, but most of this is about uphill and downhill lies where there is valuable application.

I wonder if players who widen their Stance like Hogan use one Ball Location more than players who maintain a certain stance width for all clubs?

Ah, of course. :doh:

I was thinking level lies and moving the ball back for trajectory control.

K the geometry of the circle so far assumes a flat lie.

MJ re guys we love who wrote books and said they played the ball in the "same place" was t it vis a vis the left foot? If so and if they also narrowed their stance progressively consider how the left shoulder moves vis a vis the left foot. A wide stance versus a narrow stance. You could consider that if they did actually imploy a constant ball position vis a vis the left foot ( which is debatable) they had effectively moved the ball back of low point with their narrower stance. I'm writing on my iPhone my apologies if I'm not clear

I always assumed it was really in the same place wrt the Left Shoulder, in spite of what they said, because they wanted their hands in the same position relative to the belt buckle at address. :think:

Hogan kept his head a few inches behind the ball with a wood in his hands and practically straight above the ball with a wedge.

... and narrower stance and more weight over the left hip at address towards shorter clubs

.... and less secondary axis tilt towards impact towards shorter clubs. More on top of the ball, less behind.

K I got to back .... dont want to leave anything behind when possible.

MJ I know you know this stuff but for the benefit of others, the "problem" as Lynn refers to it in his power point presentation to his certified instructors (i believe) is Steering the attempt to steer the clubhead straght line away or towards the ball with the face square to the ball. Add an attempt to keep the clubhead "low to the ground" and you have all three forms of Steering.

The "problem" is perceptual , in our dismay we start to think about solutions to this crazy arse game and we land on a the more familiar to us linear approach . Like pool or whatever. We try to achieve , to the extent we actually can, a linear Delivery Path of the Clubhead with a square face (Vertical Hinging) Ill try and draw all this.

........... Major aside here... this geometry to the extent it can actually be manipulated has an effect of the ball response. The physics of it can not be denied. Usually its a terrible set of impact dynamics for a tee shot (watch any hackers lame duck tee ball, leaving cross line slice aside for now). But useful for certain shots perhaps (the same hacker might have a decent high soft wedge shot if he grooves it). His straight back , straight through putting may be quite good actually.


Daryl do you have drawing number 2-C-3 #3 Linear Force -The Lob Shot on hand?

if so can you post it upside down from the player perspective.

2-c-3 #3. Ok I'll post it tonight. It's not with me.



Dual Vertical Hinging requires that the Clubhead follows the Orbit no differently than other Hinge Actions with the exception that the Clubface is aligned to the Vertical Plane.

Why Steer? Because people don't believe that you can strike a ball with an angular force yet make the ball respond as though it were struck with a linear force. Not having done so, how could they know otherwise?

Attachment 2933


Heres a real rough doodle I just did of the players view of Steering (two forms of it) . Took a photo of it emailed it to myself , fixed it up a tad in Iphoto and posted it. Took about 10 minutes ... no scanner available to me right now. Guys please draw some doodles if the spirit moves you, let it groove you. We need drawings , even bad ones... like this and worse.

Please correct it where you see fit. Ah crap just noticed I forgot to label the curve as the Arc Of Approach , the players unique view of the circular clubhead orbit . Also that elbow plane solid line is the straight on view of the circle ... it looks like a line ... I should have extended above his head a bit more.

We're still talking about the geometry of the circle model here , stick man , 2D perfect circle , constant centre and radius etc. Like the stick man has himself in a giant hoola hoop. What circles look like from various perspectives although we added a clubface . Enter a whole bag of considerations with that one.

That curved Arc of Approach is approximated. Probably exaggerated somewhat for illustrative purposes . The to scale version the actual arc might even seem trivial but it isnt!

Notice also that the Steered clubhead (#1) still has some OUT to its orbit . Its not going to compress the ball very much but it does have some 3 dimensional impact to it. Not the ideal , not much but some. If the player got his eyes right over the ball things would be different just Down and Forward , no Out whatsoever. true 2D impact. Small point but since we're here. Imagine trying to articulate that in words....thats why I believe drawings are necessary when discussing geometry.