LynnBlakeGolf Forums - Plane of left wrist cock and left arm

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matthew, what book or teacher do you think best teaches the correct wrist action for a sequenced release?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathew (Post 52987)

Homer Kelley referenced the wrist conditions in chapter 4 and is basically describing three 90 degree circles of rotation around the left wrist center. In 3D terminology these are labeled the x,y and z axis. Homer Kelley on the other hand labeled these horizontal(bent/arched), perpendicular (cocked/uncocked), and rotational (turned/rolled) and appear precisely in the same order as x,y and z. Homer Kelley's intentions could not be any more clear on this.

As an analogy, think of a globe and imagine the equator and 2 circles drawn from the north and south pole whereby all intersections of these circles are at 90 degrees from each other.

Both the horizontal and perpendicular circles of rotation will influence the club on a flat plane. These circles will also influence the movement of each other but not the rotational or z axis is the fixed constant around the rotation of the left wrist.

To think of the 'perpendicular' (cocking and uncocking) displacement as taking place on a curved plane is incorrect unless your 'reinventing' what has been one of the most basic cornerstones of engineering and mathematical knowledge as has been practiced for the last few centuries.

The displacing effect with the z-axis is somewhat more tricky to explain but not so difficult to understand once you can visualise it. When the club is directly opposed to the rotational plane it has no displacing effect other than turning it in a conical shape around the longitudinal center of gravity. When it is on the rotational plane, then it will move on a flat plane. When the club is between these alignments the club will now get displaced in a conical movement. However, the displacement of the club is still always still taking place with regards to its 2D axis.

Mechanically without anatomical restraint any two of these axis can move the club anywhere around the left wrist center whereby Homer Kelley outlined the possible wrist conditions in the standard flail of 2-K...

Now I cannot be bothered typing what I said before so let me just copy and paste here.
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If the left wristcock takes place without a bent or arched condition, it moves on a plane that is aligned with the left arm. Since the left arm is not onplane and it is above plane therefore the left wristcock plane CANNOT EVER be aligned to the inclined plane.
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However if you wish to use the sequenced release you must align the perpendicular axis to the inclined plane inorder to make it independant of the rotational axis, the horizontal axis must be employed.

However simultaneous release is possible without any movement on the horizontal axis. Homer Kelley may have known this as he referenced that he believed that both swingers and hitters should use hitting alignments, and that his entire premise of clubface control was based around using two axis or rotation. I could make many arguements against this premise however mechanical advantage, and what constitutes swinging is not at the heart of this thread.

As a critique of Homer Kelley, this produces many contradictions in the book where some parts are actually misleading. On the other hand, I can understand Homer Kelleys intentions for simplicity inorder to get through to those with occult idealogies as the hitting alignments Homer Kelley suggests is indeed simplier than the swinging pattern I would suggest to intellectually grasp and explain. It is a system but a system based on an adaptable 'hitting' pattern and in that respect the book is perfect. However preforming a sequenced release with a 'flat' left wrist is hogwash that needs to be throughly disposed of.

i understand the word hogwash. i do not understand though what we are supposed to do with the wrists in a sequenced release.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathew (Post 52987)

. . . performing a sequenced release with a 'flat' left wrist is hogwash that needs to be throughly disposed of.

Mathew,

I understand that the left arm is not aligned to the plane. Nevertheless, is it possible to align the left palm to the plane and effect a sequenced release? If so, does a person's Grip Type make a difference in the appearance of the Left Wrist?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 53937)

Mathew,

I understand that the left arm is not aligned to the plane. Nevertheless, is it possible to align the left palm to the plane and effect a sequenced release?

Quote:

If so, does a person's Grip Type make a difference in the appearance of the Left Wrist?

Yes, the amount that the left hand is turned from its vertical alignment when establishing the grip is an offset to the geometry of the wrist motions.

The more the hand is turned the more the perpendicular motion becomes a horizontal motion.

The more the hand is turned the more the horizontal motion becomes perpendicular motion.

When I talk about the 3 geometrical axis of rotation and their alignments I talk about them in the terms of the underlying mechanical structure in relation to the vertical state. In the human model - the geometry remains the same no matter what the grip type may be and is just an offset which will create different actual wrist conditions based apon it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathew (Post 53940)

Yes but inorder for the entire palm to face the plane, the left wrist is dynamically bent to the degree that the left arm comes into the plane from above.

The more the left arm is above plane - the bigger the degree of bend.
The less that the left arm is above plane - the lesser the degree of bend.

Yes, the amount that the left hand is turned from its vertical alignment when establishing the grip is an offset to the geometry of the wrist motions.

The more the hand is turned the more the perpendicular motion becomes a horizontal motion.

The more the hand is turned the more the horizontal motion becomes perpendicular motion.

When I talk about the 3 geometrical axis of rotation and their alignments I talk about them in the terms of the underlying mechanical structure in relation to the vertical state. In the human model - the geometry remains the same no matter what the grip type may be and is just an offset which will create different actual wrist conditions based apon it.

do i do anything with hands or arm/ DOES CFPUT ME IN A FLAT WRIST CONDITION A IMPACT OR IS MY LEFT WRIST STILL BENT. do i go into an arched condition? please explain the full sequence. if you have already, i apoligize, i do not understand the whole sequence yet. a few years ago i was hitting balls and was keeping my left wrist bent. the results were great. i had a lesson the next day and asked the pro why that was working so well. of course, he could not answer. maybe i had it right and did not know it. i have been so hung up on the tgm flat left wrist that i quit what worked for me. you may change golf instruction for the tgm for the better . keep up the good work. i know we can be a little dumb, but hang in there with us.

mathew, how would you place the arms and hands at set -up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe curtis (Post 53951)

Read this earlier but didn't have time to really answer it properly.

I think your not really seeing the wrist conditions properly when the dynamic nature when the roll of the no.3 accumulator comes into play.

The clubs position in relation to the left arm creates the wrist conditions. It is very easy to understand these motions when dealing with 2 axis of rotation but when adding in the third it makes things more complex but not so difficult once you understand it. I am certainly not advocating a bent left wrist at impact.

The wrist conditions change dynamically in accordance to where the clubhead is in relation to the left arm.

The clubhead travels in a circular orbit around the left hand. The wrist conditions do not create this orbit but merely adapt around its position.

And as the roll of the left hand takes place - it rotates and thus influences the two other axis of rotation. So from a turned condition where the left arm comes into the plane at an angle and the left wrist is bent inorder for the wristcock plane to be placed upon the inclined plane. Now what this allows is the fact that the release point can now be independant of the no.3 accumulator.

Now with this in mind - I'll describe the - turned to the plane moving to vertical to the plane - condition of the left hand. This is 90 degrees of rotation.

What was the degree of wristbend will become an equivalent degree in wristcock.

What was wristcock will become an equivalent degree in arched.

This of course would be in a phase of what Homer Kelley called centrifugal acceleration per 2-K.

In a swingers pattern - the sequence of events occurs like this - from the top of the backstroke - The primary lever assembly has a force created against it at pp4 which when loses its acceleration starts releasing accumulator 4... whilst it is releasing, the law of the flail comes into play and the left wristcock then allows the clubhead orbit to start releasing onplane... then whilst the clubhead is motion the left wrist starts rolling and rotating the other two axis of rotation in accordance to clubheads position.

Quote:

i know we can be a little dumb, but hang in there with us.

Im glad you brought this up because I want to talk on this...

The average human is far more intelligent than most people give them credit for, but just they lack the will to actually investigate. Golf knowledge is one of my areas of expertise and I welcome questions that aren't loaded and genuinely inquiring - and time permitting, I try and answer. It should be very obvious that I have spent a great deal of time thinking and understanding and its nonsensical to those to partake in a competition with me because they have not put the energy into it that I have. It is always people that have overestimated their abilities and have a belief that they are Gods gift to instruction, however when they actually see someone with the 'real will' to learn, they feel inferior and attack rather than put that energy into their own pursuit of learning. Now I have to admit that of recent I had completely lost my ability to deal with people with the same calmness I did before for many years on similar events. However I am feeling better now and I'm getting to get into a better state of mind mainly because of some good news thats happened recently.

I want to announce it just now cos very happy about it. My girlfriend and me and have decided upon getting engaged :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathew (Post 53969)

I want to announce it just now cos very happy about it. My girlfriend and me and have decided upon getting engaged :)

Congratulation!

Quote:

Originally Posted by KOC (Post 53971)

Congratulation!

Heres a pic of us together :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathew (Post 53969)

Now I have to admit that of recent I had completely lost my ability to deal with people with the same calmness I did before for many years on similar events. However I am feeling better now and I'm getting to get into a better state of mind mainly because of some good news thats happened recently.

I want to announce it just now cos very happy about it. My girlfriend and me and have decided upon getting engaged :)

This is an off-topic discussion which only Mathew could override and let stand.

You have outdone yourself sir. Great catch.:clap:

I'm very happy for you Mathew. Keep us posted on the future plans. :thumright