Actually - I pretty much do believe that one ... but in reality you may not be doing the imperatives as required without a little bit of conscious pivot training...

Hands controlled pivot...pivot is controlled by the movement of the hands WITHIN the constraints provided by essentials and imperatives.... quite a pill to swallow but a sponnful of "stationary head" makes it easier to swallow...wow...I sound pretty Kool-aid preaching thinker....:eyes: :laughing9

I think that head has to move down and back to release 4 more fully and i am guessing that if you have your shoulders more open at impact...the more your head has to move down and back.... maybe....just guessing and muttering to myself...

when the right shoulder motion alters/slows then the acc 4 is released.... i will pm you with special screening of a video i have....:golf:

Not to get into this too much, but can't you have the imperatives and the essentials with zero pivot? I do think this is a great thread and I do think the pivot is very misunderstood, and I do think hands controlled pivot is the ideal, but there are many variables to the pivot and how it can interfere with the hands.

back to you bucket!!


todd

I agree that there are many variables...and the variables allow different loading and plane shifts etc...but surely the pivot components are basically meant to comply to the other bits that you can consciously control ?

I think of components as being

conscious(primary)
subdivided into those that are

-static ie. grip and plane line and can be chosen and are fixed before swing motion and

- Dynamic ie. consciously controllable but occur during the swing ( and probably should be programmed during address routine...I am thinking start down waggles etc.)

and

unconscious (secondary)/ ie . reactive to the demands of the hands and other primary components....pivot components come into this category... obey essentials ( especially steady head and BALANCE) and they are chosen for you....in fact, I would go as far as saying that BALANCE chooses your pivot components for you... as long as you train your balance to manage the forces in G.O.L.F. and obey essentials/imperatives....

Maybe.... my interpretation of Homer... atlantic is wide and deep...things might have gotten mixed up across the ocean!

Hmm...OK,may not be koolaid....maybe more like a pint of bitter...warm english beer that tastes completely different to Bud...thankfully!

When I looked
 

Not sure I looked looked looked deeply enough, because I see Nicklaus as an example of an upright plane and Hogan of course as the poster child of a flatter plane. I also see the side representing Jack's ball to feet has a shorter relative dimension than than the flatter plane player would have, which makes sense. So keep going, how does this relate to different inclined planes? Don't tell me Homer labelled them according to some body feature of the player? :crybaby:

UPP in snowy and confused Ohio

You're sniffin' now . . . Flat vs. Upright . . .So if we drew a triangle from the hands at start down on Nicklaus vs. Hogan . . . the bottom line whatever the heck that is called would be different right?

What component of the Plane (down out & forward) does that represent?

Call it the base of the triangle.

That line would represent the out of the three dimensions of impact.

Boom.

So here's the $64,000 question for UppandDownn(that you, g-money, are not allowed to answer because you know it!!!)

If the base of the Triangle represents the OUT . . . then how do you have to work your shoulders inorder to get the club to comply with the plane angle and amount of OUT IN THE PLANE??? ON BOTH SIDES DOWN AND THRU???

Holla back!!!!

gmoney-69 . . . DON'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION OR I'LL SEND MIKE O TO YOUR HOUSE TO GIVE YOU HERPES COMPLEX 1.

Don't worry, I won't. Don't need the herpres! Anybody trying to get to my house better have some wicked snow tires.

I only answered the last one because I'm starting to get where your going.
As you now know, I'm still incubating the concept.

If the base of the Triangle represents the OUT . . . then how do you have to work your shoulders inorder to get the club to comply with the plane angle and amount of OUT IN THE PLANE??? ON BOTH SIDES DOWN AND THRU???

My guess at the money would be that the shoulders for the ball that is further from the feet would need to work more "out" and on a flatter plane. More out and less down. This may also create more axis tilt and a more "open" shoulder alignment at impact. The ball flight would tend to be a bit lower. That's my final answer.....let me know if and where I can pick up the "ka-ching" \\:D/