Originally Posted by coophitter (Post 48505)

The Mencken quote was my attempt at satire. Mencken was a famous early 20th century American journalist, essayist, and political commentator who was well known for his use of satire and for his sharp critiques of American life and culture.

If I was to truly pit Einstein's Aristotelian principles of knowledge against opposite views, I would offer the priciples of knowledge that physicists Niels Bohr, Werner Heisenberg and others developed. Einstein challenged these principles in what is often called the Bohr-Einstein debates. The debates were also referred to as Einstein's challenges against the standard or Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics.

How Bohr and Heisenberg reached their conclusions is over my head, but if their conclusions are right, then I think my forum entry stands its ground right up to and including the last paragraph. If you research Bohr's complimentarity principle, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, and quantum indeterminism in general, you may conclude, like many Nobel prize winners in physics have concluded, that observation and measurement of phenomena, even at the macroscopic level, may remain eternally enigmatic. Einstein's most profound argument against indeterminacy may have been that he believed that God did not play dice.

Originally Posted by coophitter (Post 48457)

The legs plant and the lower part of the spine pivots a bit and changes directions a split second before the upper spine, arms, and club have finished their backswing. This leg/lower spine action serves two purposes: It puts the brakes on the upper spine-arms-club backswing and it pushes into the ground to create the groundforce that the arms and hands can then transmit in a different direction, if desired, by lowering, forming, and aiming a harness or "power package". The initial leg plant and slight lower spine pivot to effect the braking action and groundforce production then slows down so that energy can flow into the prepared arms, hands, and club. The arms, hands, and club then swing through the ball past the pivot and then reaccelerate the slowed pivot to the finish. Horizontal hinge action typically accelerates the pivot to a fuller more rotateded finish than angled or vertical hinge action.

Based on the above, one could convincingly argue that the pivot precedes and sets up the start down, storage, delivery, and release of the power package, but one could also convincingly argue that start down, storage, delivery, and release are muscularly handled by the arms once the plant and pivot have supplied the braking action, groundforce production, and subsequent slow down necessary for the arms and hands to then muscularly form a harness and transmit the groundforce. Until the force is transmitted by the arms and hands, a golfer has not swung to hit the ball yet. So the arms harness and transmit the force on the downswing and the slowed pivot reaccelerates and follows thereafter. Arms initiate downswing force transmission and the pivot follows, but the pivot has already accelerated a bit and then slowed to facilitate this.

First pivot then arms to initiate, generate, and complete the actual strike of the ball or the other way around? Either explanation works for me. I just need to know someone's definitions of when the backswing stops, when the downswing begins, and when the actual muscular force to strike the ball is transmitted. I usually prefer to say that the legs and pivot stop the backswing and create the groundforce that the arms can then harness and transmit to initiate the strike of the ball. Since I can check my swing and decide not to strike the ball after my downswing leg and pivot action has occurred, then I really do feel that my bent right arm receives the ultimate message from my brain to initiate the strike of the ball.

I predict that there will always be two sides to this argument and both are right, but I do believe that the legs are the engine and the arms and hands are the transmission. The muscularly active and reactive pivot is necessary for both the engine and the transmission to be effective.

Einstein said that answers to complex questions like this are usually simple, elegant, and predictable, but in this case I believe in HL Mencken who said that "For every complex problem there is a simple solution. And it's always wrong." Both sides in this debate should be prepared to be wrong, right, or neither wrong nor right depending on the premises and context of the argument.

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 48608)

Mike O,

How long has it been since you've taken your medication? You do understand that they won't let you make Hamburgers unless you're calm, don't you? :laughing9

Originally Posted by Mike O (Post 48685)

Daryl,
I refuse to answer that question! I refuse to answer that question! I refuse to answer that question! I refuse to answer that question! I refuse to answer that question! I refuse to answer that question! I refuse to answer that question! I refuse to answer that question! I refuse to answer that question! I refuse to answer that question! I refuse to answer that question! .................................................. ...................................
Stop it! Get away from me! No! No! Don't take me there!! .....:eyes:

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 48689)

Somebody ran out of lotion . . .

Originally Posted by phillygolf (Post 48690)

Oh man,

Classic.

Mike has no shot at recovery from this one.

Man, 12, you are killing him!!!!!!!!!

Good one.

No.

GREAT ONE.

Originally Posted by Jeff (Post 51670)

Surely you are wrong to make this assertion with respect to swinging (not hitting) - considering the "evidence" from those 12 Tomasello DVDs that recently became available.

Jeff.

Originally Posted by Jeff (Post 51670)

DG - you wrote-: "Trust me, Tommy started the downswing with the right arm when the hands are above shoulder high....the uncocking of the right elbow through the use of the right forearm. The Magic of the Right Forearm. Tommy throws the club down with the uncocking motion of the right elbow through the right forearm....Tommy did not in any way teach the full swing with the right shoulder starting the club down or with the lower body....total mis-interpretation."

Surely you are wrong to make this assertion with respect to swinging (not hitting) - considering the "evidence" from those 12 Tomasello DVDs that recently became available. Tom definitely states in those DVDs that if the hands are above shoulder level, that the hands have to drop to below shoulder height so that the arms can become connected to the body, and that the pivot action then actuates the downswing via a right shoulder downplane movement that simultaneously induces the left hip to clear. He definitely posits a causal relationship between the right shoulder downplane thrust movement and the left hip clearing action (rotation of the pelvis so that it squarely faces the target after impact).

Jeff.