LynnBlakeGolf Forums - Intricacies of Hitting and Swinging

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Please continue your posts, lengthy or otherwise. They are interesting and edifying.

RT

A Community of Giants

Is this a cool place or what! :)

3 Month Countdown

Cooper,

I believe one of your students contacted me on the old TGM forum and told me you went from your 8 handicap to scratch in 3 months after studying with Tomasello? Is that correct?

DG

Extensor Action in Swinging = Active Right Arm Thrust ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by coophitter

Well spoken RWH. A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet or something like that. But I still observe such friendly debate among TGM students and AIs concerning the inherent meaning attached to so many of Mr. Kelley's words. For example, your words explain the essential passivity of the right arm during the release interval in Swinging versus the conscious deliberate muscular triceps thrust during Hitting's release interval. But I read in TGM and often hear from students and instructors that extensor action is ever present in the Swinging and Hitting procedures. In other words the right triceps is always trying to straighten the right arm in Swinging. That doesn't sound like a very passive right triceps. Is it just that Hitting's triceps activity is conscious and deliberate while in Swinging you don't know it's going on? I never knew I was a Hitter until George Kelnhofer told me I was.

Here is a post I made in another thread a while ago (post #22 in http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ad.php?p=11069), which may or may not help clarify things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tongzilla

The Right Arm has contributed nothing but Motion for the Swinger, as opposed to Right Arm Action for the Hitter.

It cannot be 100% passive because of Extensor Action.

The push from the Right Triceps that pulls the Left Arm straight is constant. This steady effort to pull the Left Arm into a fixed length that does not increase during the Downstroke or Release.

Just because you see the right arm straightening during the Follow Through doesn't mean you're "adding". Centrifugal Force (as opposed to active Right Arm Thrust for the Hitter) uncocks both the Swinger's Right Elbow and Left Wrist during Release.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coophitter

Well spoken RWH. A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet or something like that. But I still observe such friendly debate among TGM students and AIs concerning the inherent meaning attached to so many of Mr. Kelley's words. For example, your words explain the essential passivity of the right arm during the release interval in Swinging versus the conscious deliberate muscular triceps thrust during Hitting's release interval. But I read in TGM and often hear from students and instructors that extensor action is ever present in the Swinging and Hitting procedures. In other words the right triceps is always trying to straighten the right arm in Swinging. That doesn't sound like a very passive right triceps. Is it just that Hitting's triceps activity is conscious and deliberate while in Swinging you don't know it's going on?

Sincerely, Cooper Osborne, GSEM, PGA

Cooper,
I, for one, really appreciate your insight and the quality of your posts.

I agree with Tongzilla on this one, and I'll give you another example and one of the ways I use to explain it:

Imagine a person leaning against you and you're keeping them at a constant distance with the triceps of the right arm (extensor action for Swinging and Hitting). I can keep you at that given distance with a constant pressure, but at any time, I can choose to actively employ the triceps to push you away (muscular drive out for Hitting).

extensor action = fog

I've asked this question about the role of extensor action for swingers before and i must admit my understanding is still clouded with fog. What i don't understand is i thought a swingers right arms were supposed to straighten due to centrifugal force, but surely the tension extensor action creates inhibits this. Does this mean a degree of inhibition is acceptable for a swinger?

YodasLuke,
i'm also unsure about your example. I'm not sure your analogy works with the golf swing, Isn't the person only kept at a constant distance when pressure point #4 is place. However, when this is released during the left arm blask off for the swinger wouldn't the same constant pressure result in the right arm straightening and thus using your analogy pushing the person away? Which from what i've read is indicative of a hit.

I really would appreciate any replies, i just can't get my head around this concept.

Cheers,

Danny

Quote:

Originally Posted by danny_shank

Reading the page on extensor action, you'll find that "This stretches but does not move the Left Arm and produces a structural rigidity..."

In my analogy, if the person slowly moves away under his own power, my right arm can straighten 'passively'. But, I can still give him some help (drive out) in getting him out of my face. :) Also remember, in hitting, you're resisting the deceleration of the hands with muscular thrust.

Swinging versus Hitting as far as trigger types is active Left Wrist versus active Right Elbow. (7-20)

Ahh, thank you YodasLuke that clears a few think up.

I agree, but if this leaning person decides to move away from you of his own accord, will your arm straighten? I don't think it will. I'll have to look up the particular muscles and get back to you, but in your example, I think muscles in addition to the triceps are being employed to prevent further bending of the right elbow. These same other muscles are the ones you use when you have bench pressed a barbell and you then make sure the return trip towards your chest of the barbell you have just pushed away doesn't happen too quickly. A better example of the extensor action Kelley is talking about would be trying to push the person away from you but he's so heavy you can't until lets you. In this case the triceps is active; it just can't do any work until it's allowed to. I don't know what this means relative to a golf swing but how do you make an active right triceps only stretch the left arm in swinging and actually drive or move it in hitting? I don't think there is a steady effort to straighten the bent right arm in Swinging. I think your example would actually be more correct than Kelley's in describing the role of the right arm in Swinging. In your example the right arm is not actively making a steady effort to straighten. It's only trying to resist bending.

My last post was in reply to YodasLuke's #70 post. I just figured out quick reply only replies to the last post.