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-   -   What are the fundamental alignments of a good Pivot? (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5402)

Uppndownn 02-12-2008 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 49613)
I still don't think we have defined:

A. All the functions of the pivot
B. The Components that make up the pivot
C. Sequence of Movement in the Pivot
D. Relation of Pivot to Plane Angle
E. Relation of Pivot to Plane Line
F. Relation of Pivot to Hand Path
G. Relation of Pivot to Clubface
E. Relation of Pivot do Low Point

Does that get us back to the task at hand?

So let's start with Function

1. Deliver the Power Package to the desired Impact Hand Location with the corresponding amount of Shaft Lean
2. Develop Angular Momentum and/or Support of Muscular Thrust
3. Allow the club to satisfy desired Plane Line/Angle requirements via the amount of Axis Tilt
4. Produce the desired Hinge Action and comply with Grip Type Requirements
5. Produce the necessary amount of Pivot Lag (for full power shots from the ground up i.e. Swinging from the Feet) Transfer momentum from "joint segments"
6. Balance the Machine
7. Have a Center that produces a consistent Low Point and Angle of Attack

That's my 5 minute stab at it . . . in no particular order.
B. Components:

One way to analyze the pivot summarizes the component parts as:

Feet
Hips
Shoulders
Power package
Club

Of course there is soft tissue and other variables in between these points but these in particular seem to be a good starting point.

C. An efficient pivot occurs indeed from the groud up, with a kinetic link sequence of the segments listed in B above beginning with the ground and ending in the club compressing the ball through the impact interval.

I am still not sure how you are going to tie this to alignment, though, Buck.

12 piece bucket 02-12-2008 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppndownn (Post 49616)
B. Components:

One way to analyze the pivot summarizes the component parts as:

Feet
Hips
Shoulders
Power package
Club

Of course there is soft tissue and other variables in between these points but these in particular seem to be a good starting point.

C. An efficient pivot occurs indeed from the groud up, with a kinetic link sequence of the segments listed in B above beginning with the ground and ending in the club compressing the ball through the impact interval.

I am still not sure how you are going to tie this to alignment, though, Buck.

There's more to it than that . . .

How is the pivot different for the elbow plane vs. the turned shoulder plane?

How is it different for Angle of Approach, Plane Line Tracing, and Arc of Approach?

How is it different for Line Delivery and Circle Path?

I promise . . . it's different.

golfbulldog 02-12-2008 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 49560)
At Impact, my Pivot is at its strongest. It slows after Both Arms Straight.

Do this: Stand in a Doorway. Face the Hinges. Take your Left Foot and put your left Heal against the inside of the Door Jamb. Your Right Foot is inside the Room. Take your posture. Using your Right Leg, move your Right hip toward the door casing. Your Left Hip will hit the casing first. Keep pushing with your Right Leg. About 100 pounds of pressure so far and you haven't even added Hip Action yet!!! You better use a folded towel or you'll hurt your left hip. If you did this behind a 4,000 pound car, you can push it with just your hip and Right Leg.

Do you get how to do this drill? I might be able to explain it better.
I get it and I done it.... Greg McHatton does a similar drill where he uses his pivot to push against and move a heavy golf cart... no doubt that the body can do this and that you really become aware of your feet and planet earth when you do this...but in a golf swing this pivot power is used to overcome clubhead inertia at transition and not at impact...IMO.

You hit the ball with clubhead, clubhead attached to shaft, shaft moved as part of power package...what starts the power package in orbit? ...the pivot...we agree on this.

But can the pivot still spin the power package after accumulator 4 has started to release?? Sure , the pivot is still doing work... but is that work merely accomodating power package motion?

Once you release accumulator 2... can you muscle it more to release accumulator 2 harder?? If you do try , are you more likely to upset your alignments? I think that once an accumulator has been released....further muscle power is unadvisable. And what causes release of acc. 4? I think - in a pivot stroke - it is pivot motion.

In a pivot stroke, once you release accumulator 4.... can your pivot add more force? or is it just controlling direction?

golfbulldog 02-12-2008 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 49619)
There's more to it than that . . .

How is the pivot different for the elbow plane vs. the turned shoulder plane?

How is it different for Angle of Approach, Plane Line Tracing, and Arc of Approach?

How is it different for Line Delivery and Circle Path?

I promise . . . it's different.
I agree - different... but let the pivot be defined by the plane, delivery path etc...and imperatives and essentials....do those...and your pivot will show its components...

your pivot components are whatever they have to be....for you to accomplish imperatives and essentials whilst using your consciously chosen components.... grip, plane line, plane shift,

so consciously choose:- 10-1, 10-2, 10-3, 10-4, 10-5, 10-6, 10-7, 10-8, 10-9, 10-10, 10-11, 10-18, 10-19 through 10-24....leave the others to mother nature whilst you focus on steady head and imperatives...then classify 10-12 through 10-17.

12 piece bucket 02-12-2008 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfbulldog (Post 49621)
I get it and I done it.... Greg McHatton does a similar drill where he uses his pivot to push against and move a heavy golf cart... no doubt that the body can do this and that you really become aware of your feet and planet earth when you do this...but in a golf swing this pivot power is used to overcome clubhead inertia at transition and not at impact...IMO.

You hit the ball with clubhead, clubhead attached to shaft, shaft moved as part of power package...what starts the power package in orbit? ...the pivot...we agree on this.

But can the pivot still spin the power package after accumulator 4 has started to release?? Sure , the pivot is still doing work... but is that work merely accomodating power package motion?

Once you release accumulator 2... can you muscle it more to release accumulator 2 harder?? If you do try , are you more likely to upset your alignments? I think that once an accumulator has been released....further muscle power is unadvisable. And what causes release of acc. 4? I think - in a pivot stroke - it is pivot motion.

In a pivot stroke, once you release accumulator 4.... can your pivot add more force? or is it just controlling direction?

The pivot is responsible for the GENERATION of Angular Momentum. And instrumental in determining low point and handle location. So maybe if you have too much axis tilt you have to do something compensatory via the right arm to get the handle in the right location.

Let me ask you a question . . . if you release #4 and your head moves down and back is that "subtracting"?

AND . . . What causes #4 angle to expand thereby expanding the rest of the accumulator angles propelling them seek their in-line relationship?

12 piece bucket 02-12-2008 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfbulldog (Post 49622)
I agree - different... but let the pivot be defined by the plane, delivery path etc...and imperatives and essentials....do those...and your pivot will show its components...

your pivot components are whatever they have to be....for you to accomplish imperatives and essentials whilst using your consciously chosen components.... grip, plane line, plane shift,

so consciously choose:- 10-1, 10-2, 10-3, 10-4, 10-5, 10-6, 10-7, 10-8, 10-9, 10-10, 10-11, 10-18, 10-19 through 10-24....leave the others to mother nature whilst you focus on steady head and imperatives...then classify 10-12 through 10-17.

So you are convinced that IF I have the Imperatives and the Essentials my Pivot components will comply via mutha nature?

Not sure about that one Dawgie Dawg.

Uppndownn 02-12-2008 05:17 PM
One piece at at time.....
 
There's more to it than that . . .

How is the pivot different for the elbow plane vs. the turned shoulder plane?

This is where you can teach me something. I see only an inclined plane, not the 5 or so different inclined planes discussed at times here. Ideally (and simplistically, perhaps) the pivot would move the sweetspot on plane all the way through follow through and corresponding swivel? I want to learn more about the different planes if you think it helps this discussion. For me, 3 planes exist....horizontal, vertical, and inclined. When you start slicing and dicing the inclined plane, I start losing interest. So help me out here.

UPP in snowy Ohio

12 piece bucket 02-12-2008 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppndownn (Post 49616)
B. Components:

One way to analyze the pivot summarizes the component parts as:

Feet
Hips
Shoulders
Power package
Club

Of course there is soft tissue and other variables in between these points but these in particular seem to be a good starting point.

C. An efficient pivot occurs indeed from the groud up, with a kinetic link sequence of the segments listed in B above beginning with the ground and ending in the club compressing the ball through the impact interval.

I am still not sure how you are going to tie this to alignment, though, Buck.
ALIGNMENT - The process of adjusting parts so that they are in proper relative position

You take the pieces you defined and talk to me about the alignments you see . . .










12 piece bucket 02-12-2008 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppndownn (Post 49625)
There's more to it than that . . .

How is the pivot different for the elbow plane vs. the turned shoulder plane?

This is where you can teach me something. I see only an inclined plane, not the 5 or so different inclined planes discussed at times here. Ideally (and simplistically, perhaps) the pivot would move the sweetspot on plane all the way through follow through and corresponding swivel? I want to learn more about the different planes if you think it helps this discussion. For me, 3 planes exist....horizontal, vertical, and inclined. When you start slicing and dicing the inclined plane, I start losing interest. So help me out here.

UPP in snowy Ohio




What is the difference between these two "inclined" planes . . . LOOK LOOK LOOK.

12 piece bucket 02-12-2008 05:40 PM
What do you see when you LOOK LOOK LOOK???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiwTW...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqI6IzDdpZM


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