Originally Posted by mrodock (Post 49555)

Bucket you are the picture guy, would Lehman and Waldorf be counterexamples?

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 49587)

Here's T.L. . . . rope handle?



YOU may like this one better though . ..



Waldorf



That's the best I can do.

Originally Posted by Mike O (Post 49591)

Bucket,
Waldorf's attorney just called - he wants to know who you use for counsel?

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 49599)

What kinda question is that?
I use numeralz for counselin' you idiot 4-1-2-3 slangin' them rockz beeeeeeeeotch!!!

You probably still use fingers and toes . .. but we know you can't get to 11 with no didgets . . . maybe 10 3/4's.

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 49553)

Pivot Lag. As soon as the Hips stop moving forward or slow, the Shoulders slow then Arms, Hands and Clubhead. #3 PP should have strong Pressure at least until Both Arms Straight. Driven by the Pivot.

Not sure if I am with you on the premise that when the hips slow down they slow down the shoulders, then the arms, hands, club, etc. As I understand it, swing jackets and other body motion software show a kinetic chain where the feet, then hips, then shoulders, etc have to slow down to pass on their momentum to the next "link" in the chain. This may not be a conscious movement, but it is what I believe happens.

What good is going fast if you can’t sustain the Lag. Besides, people have different speeds. People with fast Hips won’t hit the ball any farther unless they can move that Right Hip a long Way Through Impact.

Please keep in mind that Most Golfers (maybe 95%) do not move their Right Hip Far enough. You though, may have more than adequate Right Hip Travel. But, if you find yourself moving the ball back in your stance for Irons, then you probably don’t either and you simply have not learned to Pivot in a way that allows for one Ball Position. If you play the Ball back in your stance, then it’s because your Hands simply are not getting to the ball if played just behind Low Point. That’s a Pivot Problem.

I agree most golfers don't get their hips open enough at impact. I, too, am a fan of a forward ball placement (and a relatively wide stance). For what it's worth, I play a single ball position and a relatively wide, but varying, stance width.

First learn to Pivot, then learn to go faster, IF your Body can Handle it. Mine can't!!! I'm 6 feet tall, 200 pounds, and My Pivot is too powerful for my arms and hands to handle. I'm very Strong but my arms simply cannot handle the Pressure that my Pivot can put on them. My Hands know, and they Tell me to take it down a notch. Honestly, during my downswing, my Hands are Telling my Pivot to cool it.


Fair enough. I think each person's swing, and more importantly, their feels, are independent...you gotta listen to what your body tells you. I am 5' 10" 150 lbs, and have no problems with pivoting as hard as I can.

Originally Posted by Uppndownn (Post 49611)

Time out a minute, gents.

Bucket,

Have you decided what you wanted to know when you posted this thread titile?

We are starting to discuss a lot of different elements about the pivot. How it feels to some of us, where the force originates, etc. If left unchecked, this thread may spiral out into a lot of opinions without much consensus or clarity.

But I still want to know what Bucket meant by fundamental alignments of a good pivot?

Then we can move forward. I think.

Bucket? You have the floor.

UPP in snowy Ohio

Originally Posted by Clay Huestis (Post 49610)

After thinking on this a bit more, I realized I left out another important consideration regarding the pivot. The pivot has to interact with the ground....zone 1 is the only zone that comes in contact with the ground, and the power and speed of the pivot has to be developed from the ground up. If you try to pivot with one leg in the air, you can't go to hard or to fast...you need to be firmly connected to the ground. Also, I have found that you can generate a lot of rotational force by getting down into the ground and then rebounding up...reminds me a bit of Percy Boomer, opposing forces, gotta get down to get up.

Bucket, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on how the pivot interacts with the ground. As I understand it, the boys on the "dark side" also like the idea of getting down and springing up to generate rotational force. What have you learned about that?

Also does this idea of getting down and using the ground, then springing up, fall into the sacred snare of bobbing? Did Hogan bob? Did Snead? Does it matter? Why or why not?