What if the 'engineering' under the hood is not really that good? All the other stuff will be a waste of time, it'll take you so long to get there if in fact you do at all? If the creator did such a good job why can't we all play off scratch?

If you are talking about the unconscious mind I think you may be right. And what Biomechanic teaches is exercises that train your unconscious movement patterns to become more efficient. The only other way I have heard to train these is through consciously repeating a mechanical action to create "muscle memory". This is a slow process requiring repetition after repetition.

I have no idea why the training works. I have done very little training yet it has had an almost instant and noticable impact, both to my swing and my results. Biomechanic trains the causes that lead to clubhead lag, that lead to a flat left wrist and that lead to an on plane swing. I haven't worked on any of these effects. Not one. Instead I am being trained in what causes them.

To apply your analogy a good race driver does not think about the pedals, the wheel, or the brake. A good driver sees the line they want to drive on and their body responds with the right mechanical activities to put the car on that line at the highest possible speed. It is learner drivers who have to think about gears, pedals and wheels - and they don't drive very well.

You cannot find out what happens in a top level golfers mind, except that they will tell you "very little". I remember an article where they measured Greg Norman's pre shot routine. They found that his bad shots almost always has a pre shot routine that is slightly longer than normal. His best shots come when he goes into autopilot. And you cannot be taught autopilot from another person.

Biomechanic doesn't try and measure what happens in other people's heads. What he does measure is what happens with their bodies in incredible detail. He assessesd what happens and can say what is good and what is harmful. And he has exercises that he can use to improve the good and remove what is harmful. And this is what is key to what he has to offer. He has exercises that train your body to have more efficient and effective movement patterns, which have been proven to work through lots and lots of testing. TGM has all this information on what your swing should do. Biomechanic has information on how you can do it, and exercises to teach you to do it.

It's not that this is the only way to play better golf. As Daryl has pointed out he is an example of someone who plays very good golf and has never had this training. But this is such an efficient way to improve. I mean, how much improvement would you expect from 12 hours of exercises performed over 10 weeks? Particularly if your swing completely changed from a long, upright, handsy action to a flat, short action. And all this with no instruction on setup, on grip, on plane, on backswing, on footwork, on hinge actions, on the right arm, on flat left wrist, on bent right wrist, on driving the shoulder, on weight shift, on power packages, on anything that looked like golf mechanics.

And you know what? I am sure I am learning many of these things. I am getting compression that I didn't even know existed. I must have a FLW or I wouldn't get that. I must have lag or I wouldn't get that.

Nice post Weeties. I feel the same improvement. I have not 'thought' about my full swing of late at all, just done my PST's as instructed (though I might add I do understand my faults/issues and areas that need to be improved by the PST program, I just don't consciously need to address them). Today I went out for 9 holes and shot 2 over, which for me is by far a PB. Now sure, you have good days, but it felt like my body new what to do without any swing thoughts due to the training I've been doing. My ball striking was beautiful (for me). Of course having said that last month I did lots of basic motion chipping working my hinges so my short game is pretty good too.
I'm working at both ends of the chain, just to be safe.

Short game too
 

Thanks stinkler. I have been working on my short game a little. But I need to pick it up a bit. Will need to get to the range for this because I am starting to be able to hit it the distance I want (because I've been practicing with a basket in the back yard) but I am getting way more backspin that I'm used to (a non-distance ball plus I'm getting some compression) so I am coming up short a fair bit. But that is something I can work on.

And those 6-10 foot putts too. I'm realising just how critical they are. Now that I can expect to get around the green in regulation or one over.

Out of my depth
 

I have not had a chance to read all of the posts. I guess my understandimg of the relationship between action/motion...physics/geometry is all screwed up. I viewed it as geometry making physics behave, kinda like a blueprint for a building. Bio when you publish something let us know. My beliefs concerning the golf stroke are based on the integrity of Homer Kelley's classic work, not my own theories but my limited understanding of his. In that sense I have nothing new to add. but I do believe that originality is nothing but judicious imitation!

Again Conservation of Momentum does not apply... Data shows a golfer's muscles are active through out the swing. Nothing is being conserved. No chains are snapping. Momentum is not being transfered from one body segment to another (IF SO PROVE IT.. this I want to see)


I know that the scientific disipline is called Kinesiology not "human motion physics". Although I have studied anatomy, physiology and human factors as it pertains to engineering I know that I am not passing myself off as a kinesiology expert attempting to sell videos and diagnostic lessons. You on the other hand are. What exactly are your qualifications bioengine?

Yes we know you once golfed well and but that hardly qualifies you as an expert on the subject matter does it? Such rationalization would suggest Tiger Woods is the best kinesiologist in the world..... I think not. I suspect everyone on this forum is as qualified to discuss these matters. My gripe is with the constant misuse of the vocabulary and the selling of snake oil though I admit even placebos can be effective... for a time.

COAM... COM ... neither apply.

Getting the info I need
 

There is plenty of information in the National Library of Medicine(Pubmed) such as this from Sports Medicine 2005 NZ Patria A. Hume, Justin Keogh, and Duncan Reid
"Golf biomechanics applies the principles and technique of mechanics to the structure and function of the golfer in an effort to improve golf technique and performance. A common recommendation for technical correction is maintaining a single fixed center hub of rotation with a two-lever one-hinge moment arm to impart force on the ball. The primary and secondary spinal angles are important for conservation of angular momentum using the kinetic link principle to generate high club-head velocity. When the golfer wants to maximize the distance of their drives, relatively large ground reaction forces (GRF) need to be produced. However, during the backswing, a greater proportion of the GRF will be observed on the back foot, with transfer of the GRF on to the front foot during the downswing/acceleration phase. Rapidly stretching hip, trunk and upper limb muscles during the backswing, maximizing the X-factor early in the downswing, and uncocking the wrists when the lead arm is about 30 degrees below the horizontal will take advantage of the summation of force principle. This will help generate large angular velocity of the club head, and ultimately ball displacement. Physical conditioning will help to recruit the muscles in the correct sequence and to optimum effect. To maximize the accuracy of chipping and putting shots, the golfer should produce a lower grip on the club and a slower/shorter backswing. Consistent patterns of shoulder and wrist movements and temporal patterning result in successful chip shots. Qualitative and quantitative methods are used to biomechanically assess golf techniques. Two- and three-dimensional videography, force plate analysis and electromyography techniques have been employed. The common golf biomechanics principles necessary to understand golf technique are stability, Newton's laws of motion (inertia, acceleration, action reaction), lever arms, conservation of angular momentum, projectiles, the kinetic link principle and the stretch-shorten cycle. Biomechanics has a role in maximizing the distance and accuracy of all golf shots (swing and putting) by providing both qualitative and quantitative evidence of body angles, joint forces and muscle activity patterns. The quantitative biomechanical data needs to be interpreted by the biomechanist and translated into coaching points for golf professionals and coaches. An understanding of correct technique will help the sports medicine practitioner provide sound technical advice and should help reduce the risk of golfing injury." I am having my local medical library obtain the full text article for me. I have also found my Physical Therapist, Massage Therapist and Fitness Trainer have been helpful. This is great supplemental information to enhance Homer's devotees quest to master G.O.L.F. Sorry I can't get much meat out of Bio's comments.

That sounds too me exactly what Bio does, it's all there. Especially the reduce injury bit. I reckon Physical Therapists, Massage Therapists and Fitness Trainers deal with repairing injury, not avoiding them, unless they know how to swing a club with better movement patterns? Physio guys make a good living on tour dealing with Pro pain.
Homers devotees? Do you give out coupons?:)
Hey No_Mind, tough call saying it's snake oil when you haven't even checked it out? Guilty till proven innocent hey? The world is flat I say!
Judicious imitation, snake oil, sound like anti-buzz words?

Translation
 

This is nothing more than a TGM Pivot for a Straight Line Delivery Path.

Golf biomechanics applies the principles and technique of mechanics (Alignments and Physics) to the structure and function of the golfer in an effort to improve golf technique and performance. A common recommendation for technical correction is maintaining a single fixed center hub of rotation (Stationary Head) with a two-lever one-hinge moment arm (Primary and Secondary Levers with a Cocked Left Wrist) to impart force on the ball. The primary and secondary spinal angles (Waist bend and Tilt) are important for conservation of angular momentum using the kinetic link principle (Pivot controlled Hands) to generate high club-head velocity. When the golfer wants to maximize the distance of their drives, relatively large ground reaction forces (GRF) need to be produced (Swing from the Feet). However, during the backswing, a greater proportion of the GRF will be observed on the back foot (the Back Right Foot), with transfer of the GRF on to the front foot (front right foot) during the downswing/acceleration phase (Hey, what about the left Foot, it has important functions too). Rapidly stretching hip, trunk and upper limb muscles during the backswing, maximizing the X-factor early in the downswing, and uncocking the wrists when the lead arm is about 30 degrees below the horizontal (Please, hackers only. Better Golfers Hands will pass the line of sight to the ball at Release) will take advantage of the summation of force principle. This will help generate large angular velocity of the club head, and ultimately ball displacement (Faster Clubhead speeds make the ball go farther). Physical conditioning will help to recruit the muscles in the correct sequence and to optimum effect (Physical connditioning may help you swing faster). To maximize the accuracy of chipping and putting shots, the golfer should produce a lower grip on the club and a slower/shorter backswing. Consistent patterns of shoulder and wrist movements and temporal patterning result in successful chip shots (practice makes perfect). Qualitative and quantitative methods are used to biomechanically assess golf techniques (the guy with the longest drive has better technique). Two- and three-dimensional videography, force plate analysis and electromyography techniques have been employed (because they have no clue whats happening when they observe a Golfer). The common golf biomechanics principles necessary to understand golf technique are stability, Newton's laws of motion (inertia, acceleration, action reaction), lever arms, conservation of angular momentum, projectiles, the kinetic link principle and the stretch-shorten cycle. Biomechanics has a role in maximizing the distance and accuracy of all golf shots (swing and putting) by providing both qualitative and quantitative evidence of body angles, joint forces and muscle activity patterns (10% pay raise per year if BioMechanists Unionize). The quantitative biomechanical data needs to be interpreted by the biomechanist and translated into coaching points for golf professionals and coaches (not enough money teaching kids). An understanding of correct technique will help the sports medicine practitioner provide sound technical advice and should help reduce the risk of golfing injury. (Golfer says: “It hurts when I do this”, the Doctor replies: “then stop doing it”.)

the guy with the longest drive has better technique
because they have no clue whats happening when they observe a Golfer
not enough money teaching kids
10% pay raise per year if BioMechanists Unionize
Golfer says: “It hurts when I do this”, the Doctor replies: “then stop doing it”


So Daryl, does being a smart arse help your students get better?

I don't teach Golf. Never have, never will. I'm an "arse".


The Biomechanics study that I read, used the longest ball striker as the Model.


They don't know what they're observing because they're not educated Golf Instructors.

Why is it that when anyone thinks they have something new, that they're not required to prove it by taking a young golfer and making him a champion? Why do they go straight to the Champion and claim that "I can make you better"?

Come on, that was funny.


Man has been running for 10,000 years. If an injured Runner visits a Doctor, the Doctor invariably says, "Stop Running".

JS has a terrific pivot but I see a tremendous amount of hand speed and a phenomenal #2 accumulator.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMo6a...eature=related

The Biomechanics study that I read, used the longest ball striker as the Model.

The? I agree length is not the only issue, maybe that one study was not a reflection of the whole?

They don't know what they're observing because they're not educated Golf Instructors.

Bio IS and can also play.

Why is it that when anyone thinks they have something new, that they're not required to prove it by taking a young golfer and making him a champion? Why do they go straight to the Champion and claim that "I can make you better"?

I'm not young or a champion. Bio has a 13 year old kid that is playing sub par rounds amongst others.

Come on, that was funny.

I'll give you that!

Man has been running for 10,000 years. If an injured Runner visits a Doctor, the Doctor invariably says, "Stop Running".

Wouldn't it be great if that doctor could now show this guy how to run without pain? Golf should not be painful and lead to injury! Unless you get hit by a ball!

Bio Excluded. I can't argue with that. I though that I was commenting/interpreting a Wikipedia type article. Did Bioengine write it?

MB,

Great video compilation. Thanks for sharing.

I have no idea where the article came from, doubt Bio wrote it.

JS can smash that ball, and in the slow mo's I'd swear his hands slow at impact?

OH HO! Go Baby!!!! :clap:

Does everyone notice by watching the slo-mo's, that none of these guys use a right arm throw or hand throw. None of them unbend the right elbow during the downswing until release (Stable power package). Do you also notice that none of them swing like Hogan with the Upper arms tight to the body.

That would be the TSP - turned shoulder plane.

There's more pure Jamie - the swing at 2:46 gives you a feel for his incredible speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np9I_yw9Nhk

Sounds good . . . do you have any before and after video? I'd be interested to see if you motion changed? Or if you were just generating more speed with the same motion?

You said . .

He has exercises that train your body to have more efficient and effective movement patterns, which have been proven to work through lots and lots of testing

I'm still a bit confused on what you measure and from what starting point? Efficient and effective movement patterns in relation to what? Effective as to what end?

What do these pivots have in common? If anything . . . if there is something in common . . . why is it common?

Yep . . . and many times they can't hit it in a fairway 100 yards wide . . . if you want to hit the ball 400 yards and don't give a ratzazz where it ends up . . . swing like that . . . if you want to hit it far . . . and straight . . . better check out what Mr. Hogan is doing . . . . there are some similarities in the pivot . . . some in the arms . . . . plane angle and shifts are way different . . . as you observe . . . arms in relation to the body are light years different . . . question is why? Is there a reason for it? . . . . that is why I keep asking . . . . biomechanically efficient to WHAT END???

No one here said JS is Biomechanically efficient? Don't know where you got that from? I would, as Bio recommends, go for the actions of Hogan any day of the week, I want to hit fairways and greens, not the end of a footy pitch.
To what end you ask? Less injury risk. More efficiency, not just power. Some seem to think Biomechanics is about just hitting harder, this is not so. It is about efficient use of body movement, this may well result in more power. It's about creating a repeatable swing that compresses the ball so that distance control is better, not just distance. Accuracy improves as the regularity of the swing improves. Consistency is built through this training and that leads to better accuracy.
It seems there is much being read into this that has not been stated, this is not about the LD guys.

No Mind,
How about opening up you mind for a minute. At present you have a closed mind. Your going off your own belief system.

Your sadly mistaken if you think I'm here to sell videos etc.
You are way off the mark there.

Problem in golf is no likes sharing their information. I have admiration for Yoda cause he's only to happy to share his knowledge with everyone.
I'm in the same boat I want to share my knowledge with people for the better of the game. Not sell video's your sadly mistaken.

hmm energy can't be stored interesting, can you please enlighten everyone about eccentric-cocentric (Stretch-Shorten Cycle) works please.
I believe that with in this cycle they say elastic energy is stored. Quite interesting.

Can you enlighten us on the first law of thermodynamics
U=Eh+Em+Ep,s
U= work ,
Eh = change in heat or thermal energy,
Em = Change in chemical energy
Es,p = Change in elastic energy

Your saying the muscles are always active, hmm interesting. Aren't also muscles accelerating an decelerating as well.

Can explain this phoenomena for us.
Angular momentum is conserved in a system where there is no net external torque, and its conservation helps explain many diverse phenomena. For example, the increase in rotational speed of a spinning figure skater as the skater's arms are contracted is a consequence of conservation of angular momentum.

Angular momentum applies in golf, actually in tennis, throwing and a ton of other sports, research was conduct by kinesiology and have written tons on research conducted and they all agree. Hmmm

Research done by our findings is not one man's belief. Years of research from Kinesiology, Neuromechanics, biomechanics has gone into our research. A team of researchers of 20 years.

So your saying researchers from the American sport institute is wrong are you saying biomotion is wrong as well. Very interesting

honestly, I personally don't care about the theory.
In our field you don't last long in the game if your theories are flawed and don't get results.
All we care about is how to train athletes how to create better movement patterns.
Our focus is training athletes to create the right movements through training. We train the body to create better movement patterns.

Results speak louder then words.

Hold on though . . . Y'all may not have said it . . . but I'm saying it . . . I'M SAYING HE'S EFFICIENT FOR THE TASK AT HAND . . . Hit it really far. So that came out of my world not y'all's . . . to me anyway the question then becomes . . . if these cats hit the ball far and we can just discount what they are doing whacky with their arms (which is a piece of it for them) . . . what are they doing with their pivot?

If there was a way to look at Hogan's pivot and JS's pivot . . . you'd see some definite similarities . . .

Ben Hogans Pivot and Delivery Path match perfectly. If he were to allow his arms to move up and away from his torso, I think he would need to change his Pivot. But, his Pivot includes his sense of balance, timing, power, tempo, etc.

In Fact, his pivot is so designed, that he was able to keep his upper arms close to his Torso side and eliminate all unessential range of motion. Zone 1 and Zone 2 not only separate duties and independent but unified into a single motion. A combination of Regulated Power and Precision.

These Long Driver need huge swings. Super Wide stretched out Arm Range of Motion going high above their heads and except for their shoulders are completely disconnected from their torsos. As their Left heels are lowered they Sit-Down, which Brings the Right Hip forward which transfers weight to the ball of their right foot. They keep their weight right of center and use the ground pressure on the ball of their right foot to force the right hip Rotation just before release which drives the right shoulder, etc. That, and their ability to leg press 1200 pounds, allows the Big Dog to eat.

Both Hogan and the Long Drivers have managed to match Zone 1 components, variations, sequencing and spacing to make the best of Zone 2.

Ben Hogan aspired to be the best golfer.
The Long Drivers aspire to hit the ball as far as they can.

Different Goals, different Swings. The same 24 components.

Fair cop bucket, I didn't read it that way. I'm a little confused now about your actual point in relation to Biomechanics though?

Well explained Daryl, thanks.

I've uploaded a video I took in my backyard on 1 July, and then another tonight. There are already shots from April so that will give you something to compare against.

The 1 July 09 shots were after doing about a month of PST. Tonight would be about 2 and a half months, I estimate about 20 sessions which would take about 30 minutes each.

Actually I'll be interested myself in having a look - as I've said I have no pattern that I'm working towards, this stuff has just come out of the exercises.

I will add a proviso that all of these are taken without a ball, just practice swings. I have no idea how much this changes when I'm actually addressing a ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6CNJIhwWB8

Efficient and Effective
 

Well bioengine is the only one who can help you understand the measurement. But what effective and efficient means to me is:

• Creating clubhead speed with the least loss along the chain
  Naturally creating a swing that works - not having to manipulate or try and control your body to avoid a bad action

biomechanics organisation has measured many of the worlds best athletes. That is what they assess you against. But what they have that matters for me is that they have exercises that have been scientifically tested to ensure that they have measurable effects on improving your biomechanics. There will be exercises that make your hips move more. There will be exercises that make them move less. Because your program is individually developed to improve your issues.

Hope that helps Bucket

Where's the beef
 

"He has exercises that train your body to have more efficient and effective movement patterns, which have been proven to work through lots and lots of testing." TGM has information on how you can do it, and exercises to teach you to do it.

How about an example? Can you just show or explain one of your exercises and how it addresses a specific problem. Talking about these exercises and saying they work is not helpful to me. If you are going to talk about this knowledge you have and we don't you should share some of it. Saying it is complicated and has to be specific to an individual golfer is not an excuse for not giving examples. I would feel better about some of the biomechanic studies if a Lynn Blake, or other knowledgable golf swing instuctor was listed with the investigators. You can always look up the CV's of the investigators and determine their credibility in their fields. A qualified golf swing expert could point out to the investigators what variables to investigate and how to evaluate the data obtained. Many medical studies done by academic doctors have resulted in false conclusions because they have lacked the clinical experience to see the flawed design of the studies. So you might point out a study in which the investigators included qualified experts not only in biomechanics but in golf instuction.

help is at hand
 

Have a look at the video link I posted on the previous page. That has examples of the exercises and some explanation of what is trained and why, by the man who did the research.

I was going to go into the qualifications of some of the people involved but that's their business. The info is there, everyone is free to use or ignore it. I'm glad I've used it. Many very highly regarded golf coaches use this. I suspect they're glad.

I hope you look into it further to determine if it will help you.

I see the similarities between JS and a young John Daly (JD).
JD should have had a lot more victories if he was able to control his lifestyle.

Golf Biomechanics 101
 

David, check out this Golf Biomechanics 101 video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZZecBELAH0

Good start
 

Thanks for the link to some specific information. It would be interesting to get the biomechanic experts together with Lynn Blakes, Greg McHattons etc of the world and compare the swings of Brian Gay, Jeff Huff, Ted Fort etc and note the differences in the various swing patterns. That information would be very helpful for someone who wanted an effecient life long swing that would be easy on the body and could be consistently be reproduced. I would be interested in Lynns and Vickie Lakes comments. Looking at the long driver guys swings as well as Tigers I am concerned about the human bodys ability to withstand the stress to the back, knee joints, muscles and tendons. I still don't think Tigers body will hold up to the senior tour. I think he will be in the same position as Nickaus.

Driver pivot ain't necessarily just about physics . . . also about pivoting in fashion to achieve the required launch conditions to hit far via angle of attack, angle of approach and how fast you "get it outta the ground".

David, Brian Gay has worked with these guys and been measured many times I believe(?). Bio said earlier in the thread that Brian worked with them for many years before LB, he has both helped and been helped by biomechanics it would seem. Don't know about Huff and Fort. I'm sure Yoda would be into the ideas found in at least Bio's approach to biomechanics (as has been stated there are many suspect approaches out there). It doesn't go against any of his (excellent) teachings, only adds to them. Worth reading Bio's recent post on the swing-pattern thread.
You are right about the longevity of some too, so many injuries from movement patterns, you still can play great golf like that but the cost is in pain.

Bucket,

Why be such a tight ass?

Another good source
 

The TPI web site has lots of information on the evaluation and recommended exercises. Using this as a base and googling some of the terms I came up with most of what I wanted. I have worked with PT's for cervical stenosis with neuropathy, lumbar stenosis with neuropathy and with proper exercises avoided surgery. These were were not related to any of my golfing endeavors. Doing fitness exercises, practicing and playing is diffcult for my body and my associated arthritis. However i have resumed working with a fitness trainer and she is tuned in already to many of these. I would add that Bio mentions evaluation to determine one's specific needs. I would add that I think everyone should have a diagnostic PT exam. A good PT can pin point areas of weakness even in those that work out a lot. Most folks have some assymetrical issues going on. I had compensatory muscles doing things my hip knee and abs should have been doing. So I think biomechanics is very valid. I would like to see it integrated into TGM so that more intelligent choices can be made about certain patterns. So far my experience with Lynn has not conflicted with my PT's advise about avoidance of further injury and so far I have no recurrence
How about a straight line delivery exercise, a catch the dog by the tail exercise, left forearm takeaway exercise perhaps with a medicine ball, stretch bands. I could see perhaps a startdown, sit down drill with a belt around the waist(hips) attached to exercise bands and another one attached from the hands to the ceiling etc. How about a Wi Fit program that measures the weight shift during the backswing and integrating it into the Wi golf game to show length of drives etc.

My mind is open. I'm listening ... What did you say your qualifications were? Have you been to a University? I subscribe to the beliefs systems I learned at the university (they are not mine) which are rooted in the pioneering work of such people as Issac Newton. There is nothing new here. He penned it all in the Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica in 1687.

There is no energy stored when muscles are stretched. Muscles contract... thats what they do. When muscles contract they apply forces to levers (the human skeleton) which cause movement. Thats all.


Muscles contract (apply force) to levers... thats it! Thats what muscles do.

I would have thought you'd have questioned me on the third law instead... Thats the much more interesting one the says conversations like this one are destined to degenerate.

First law says energy is conserved in the SYSTEM. When a golf ball is compressed some energy converted (i.e. wasted) to heat and noise... that energy is forever lost and cannot be used to help propel it the golf ball. However that heat and that noise is STILL in the system... Energy is consevered.... IN THE SYSTEM (which includes golfer ball and surroundings) THAT my biofriend is what the first law says. Get it? But momentum is NOT energy. They are two entirely different concepts.

Sure Angular momentum "applies" in golf.... But Angular Momentum sure as heck is not CONSERVED in the golf swing (for the reasons I've already stated several times now). If angular momentum were being conserved in golf as a theoretical golfer spun about his/her theoretical spine axis then as the club moved away from the body.... THE ROTATION OF THE SYSTEM WOULD SLOW DOWN. COAM dictates that an Increase the moment of inertia must be accompanied by a rotational speed decrease. Everyone knows that does not happen. Everyone knows the club angular velocity speeds up as it releases and Nesbits data proves not everyones (probably darn few) hands slow down prior to impact. COAM like COM in describing the golf swing is a MYTH (one of many btw).


I'm saying what you have written in this thread is wrong.... Don't go trying to drag other's to your defense. That is a blatant logical fallacy (appeal to popularity)... in this case a popular misconception.


YOU SHOULD CARE ABOUT THEORY! Let me tell you a true story. There was once a project to which a young Engineering graduate was assigned. They had a pit of water about 60 feet deep that need to be drained so construction could begin.... The forman on the job had a lot of "practical" experience and ordered that a certain pump be used. The young engineer took one look at the pump and said it would not work. The forman was an arrogant man who thought he knew more that some young punk engineer fresh out of school with nothing but some "book learnin". In the end the engineer was proven right... Even though it was a very big pump it did not work. do you know why? Anybody? "Theory" tells us why.

Bio.... Your words sound nice ... very benevolent... But I believe Ayn Rand has you pegged... you're in it for selfish purposes... All business' are in it to make money. Again... I'm listening... WHERE IS THE BEEF?