Patrick,

After all is said, and I've given it my best thought, I can only conclude that you're correct in this matter. Sequenced Release - Centrifugal Force and Simultaneous Release - Thrust.

However, my best try only gets a "C" in this classroom at LBG University. At least I feel confident I'm on the right track.

Bucket, I humbly agree. I've played with 15 year old kids that beat me. But wait, one more try? How about 2 retired female High School literature teachers and they have to give us 2 strokes a side?

Daryl,

My friend. I agree - I am not Homer, nor Lynn nor Mike O.....

I agree to disagree - and love the back and forth. It is/was/and will be -------------FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pm me.

Patrick

Thoughts to consider
 

Daryl,
You switched it up a little bit- the prior post was referring to when the clubface points at the plane line- but the above quote states square to the plane line and further clarifies that to mean pointing at the ball. Not sure how you invision the clubface square to the plane line AND looking at the ball?

The release can start anywhere from the earliest part of the downswing to the last instant before impact- not sure where you are invisioning this release taking place where the clubface is "square to the plane line".

When you say the clubface- the amount of loft would influence when it would or could point at the plane line. If I was laying open a sandwedge out of the bunker- the face might point at the ball at the top of the swing.

I guess I'd need to see a picture of a golfer - where as you describe the face is pointing at the ball during release- and see what that looks like. Not sure anyone would do that during the period of the downswing where the shaft is parallel to the ground or any point after that - until impact- unless you're talking about a unique short shot around the green.

It's all confusing to me.

Although I would say that unlikely as it may sound- Phillygolf is correct in that a sequenced release (whether for a straight ball, slice, hook) is defined by the timing sequence of the accumulators #2 and #3. Clubface orientation is a completely separate issue.

Mike,

I think you may have found the error in my thinking. Please look at post #46 in this thread. I said that Sergios Wrists are Cocked and His Clubface is pointing at the Plane Line, and maybe I’m wrong to say it’s pointing at the Ball. This may be where I'm making a mistake.

My understanding of the Sequenced Release Motion is that the #3 Acc (Hand Motion – Clubface control) is preceded by the #2 Acc (Wrist Motion - Clubhead). In Sergios case, as this Picture illustrates, His Left Wrist looks Flat to me, with a 10-2-D Grip. I guess at the 10-2-D grip because his Clubface is facing the Plane Line when his Left Wrist is Flat. I’m saying that His Clubface is (in dummied down Golf vernacular) square to the Ball. If that’s true, then he won’t need to Swivel into Impact (he only needs the Pivot to Roll the #3). He is using Simultaneous Release (Right hand Paddlewheel). Additionally, I have been trying (but failed) to say that he cannot unCock and Roll on the same Planeline if he tries to Sequence the Release.

Sergio is Swinging only because his is not using Right Arm Thrust. Sergio also Cocks Both Wrists.

If someone can put all of this together, like I have (misguided perhaps), then it becomes clear that Sergio is 10-2-D, Angle Hinging, Controlled Throwaway Swinger, 165 pounds, wins Millions, and gets all the Girls. :)

This thread brought YOU outta the woodwork????? What the hell is wrong with you???

First of all . . . NEVER pay any attention to Mike O . . . he's an opportunist pot stirring probably pot smoking sitting on the pot nymrod perverted cow tipping mouth breathing corner rocking retard. He could careless about this thread and is only chucking molotov cocktails in our little romper room. That's first . . . .

SECOND . . . you have latched on to it . . . the book is written based on 10-2-B assumptions . . . his grip is 10-2-D . . . .he is in fact throwing the clubface at the ball. With 10-2-D . . . NEVER NEVER NEVER any rolling until after impact

10-2-D . . . This Grip Type features maximum Wristcocking action and strong support for both Acceleration and Impact loads. The palm of the Right Hand moves toward Impact exactly like a paddle-wheel rotating On-Plane – no separate Rolling Motion until after Impac

THIRD . . . . I see absolutely NO evidence of throwaway in his motion.

You should pray every night in great thanksgiving that you are NOT Mike O.

How many arms do they have?

Hmm? Forget about them. How about two Catholic Nuns and they play from 8000 yards?

Are they hot?

Dear Mr. Bucket,

I think that Mike O has presented a very good point. He is insightful.

With all due respect and admiration for you, the fact that you “see absolutely NO evidence of throwaway in his motion”, suggests that you need vision corrections. Not only have you failed to capture the obvious, but lack the faculty to comprehend that the mere definition of 10-2-D with Angled Hinge, Simultaneous Release Motion and CF is - [Controlled Clubhead Throwaway].

Respectfully and Humbly Yours, :)

Daryl

PS. We'll get pretty Nuns. Italian ones. Beer Drinking Nuns.

"Corner rocking retard"...very funny!


. . . you have latched on to it . . . the book is written based on 10-2-B assumptions . . . his grip is 10-2-D . . . .he is in fact throwing the clubface at the ball. With 10-2-D . . . NEVER NEVER NEVER any rolling until after impact

I considered this (10-2-B versus 10-2-D). ...but I experienced a gonad misfiring and did not want to risk a turn in the grinder! At least I kept up with the topic, an improvement for me. :eyes:

Messing around with a 10-2-D I find it almost irresistable not to roll it! I did discover the low flying spinning (like a drunk on a mechanical bull) wedge shot ala Lee Buck! I love the simplicity of a single action.

okie,

I might be slammed for saying this, but Sergio doesn't Angle Hinge. I don't think he "Hinges" like we at "TGM Central" define Hinging. He creates the Primary Lever as evidenced in the Photo of his Release. He throws the Clubface at the Ball and he Bends his Left Wrist immediately after (and during) Impact. Like Yoda says, ( but not as eloquently for sure ), his Bent Left Wrist and Flat Right Wrist after Impact (see post #22) is evidence of the process of getting there (I haven't heard Yoda say that about anyone in particular, including Sergio). He has a little Swinging from the Wrists thrown in with everything else he does.

You have an irresistible tendency to Roll, as your comment suggests. Because you have been taught to and you have learned to and you understand Uncocking and Rolling. It is now inherent in your WAY. It's not Sergio's WAY. He feels very confident, and the money proves it to him, that he knows the Secret of Golf. :)

PS. Single Action is for Hitters. Do you use a Pink Ball?

I reviewed the Video. He does not Cock his Right Wrist nor does he Cock his Right Hand (Cocking Right Hand = Roll at Top Position). He Hinges. Is he TGM???? Where did he learn that? Too bad about his use of 10-18-C and Angled Hinge. BUCKET, He uses Simultaneous Release, not Sequenced!! Don't Be faked out. WATCH HIS RIGHT HAND MOTION FROM RELEASE THRU IMPACT. Paddlewheel; no swivel. Stop Drinking.

You find us some crack smoking nuns and I'm all over it . . .

Dude . . . I think what we have here is failure to communicate . . . . let's define something . . .

What to you is CLUBHEAD THROWAWAY???

To me if the club stays in-line with your left arm . . . it don't matter what your grip looks like . . . it ain't no throwaway.

So you are telling me that if anybody on the planet has a turned grip and uses angled hinging . . . they are throwing it away??? So Lee Buck was a throw away artist???

4-D-1 THE FLAT LEFT WRIST

All Wrist positions and motion may remain correct until the Release, where, for a variety of misconceptions the Right Wrist is allowed to Flatten. Any loss in Impact Fix Right Wrist Bend during Release immediately becomes Left Wrist Bend – Clubhead Throwaway. Which starts the Club swinging form the Wrists – in an “inside” and “upward” motion – the Clubface is rapidly Closing and the Clubshaft becomes “in-line” with the Right Forearm instead of the Left Arm.


There's no way through the line of compression Sergio Garcia doesn't satisfy the conditions of the Flail. It don't happen.

I got a feeling you could find us some crack smokin' nuns in a matter of minutes.

I never said he used sequenced release . . . I put him up to compare to Sergio because they both got a turned left hand . . . neither one of 'em uses Sequenced because if they did they'd hook it to where the elephants go to die . . . . DEEEEEEEP in the woods.

This was to illustrate the releative dynamics of the two swings . . . Sergio maximizes physics trigger delay . . . the thing to look at is the respective axis titls and HOW MUCH HIGER SERGIO'S CLUB IS OFF THE GROUND WHEN HIS HANDS START GETTING TOWARD HIS RIGHT THIGH . . . . Sweepy versus Steepy

2-C-3 . . . "Sweeping the Ball" describes the procedure - come in Low and stay Low - which is an out and out Steering type Throwaway with a long Low Point Line - a flat spot in the Clubhead Orbit. .

Zach doesn't throw it away for sure . . . but he has NO SWIVEL back up the plane he's just draggggggging his hands back up plane. Watch how long is left arm stays straight.

Hitta...Swinga...it don't matta!
 

Be sure to bring centrifugal force along with your wallet! :laughing9

Just kidding! I am actually a swinger. I will go as far as to say I even indulge in pure swinging on occassion (I know the exact ball location for my driver!) However, understanding the seperate identities of hitting and swinging has been game altering! I have added dozens of shots to my quiver of tricks.

I succumb to the allure of hitting the closer I get to the hole. Given my recent drooling about push basic putting it is no surprise that I have a soft spot in my heart for the # 1 Acc. Afterall it is # 1! I guess I do not have the intestinal fortitude to hit swinging chips etc. :eyes: I tend to fight with Captain CF and botch low point. Like many people, abandoned by gypsy parents to be raised by Mongolian sherpas in the footthills of the Himalayas, I have trust issues!:laughing1 So like many people I hit when I feel like hitting and swing when I feel like swinging! With a longer lever in my hand I fall in love with # 2 and his misunderstood partner in sublime crime, # 3. Aren't I special! So consider me an emmissary of peace, sent to bridge the gap between those that trust invisible forces and those that ARE the force!

Both
 

Okie,

I haven't had the chance to refine my hitting motion, but I will throw a few "hits" in a round as needed. I also tend to "hit" my shorter shots and have "hit" some really good bunker shots from 50 to 150 yards out. I think I get more solid contact out of those "dreaded bunker distances" by not using a lot of pivot motion. Simply a stable lower body, lots of extensor action (with a hovering clubhead so I KNOW I'm not gonna "fat it") a RFT and a "crossline angled hinging thrust" back to the ball.

Don't know that I'll ever move totally to the hitters side of the fence, but I think a deep understanding of how to do it yields great dividends.

CG

This Post needs to be cataloged. It's poetic. It's point on target, and easy to understand and digest. Artful and thoughtful, simultaneously. :)

"You will not apply my precept," he said, shaking his head. "How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth? We know that he did not come through the door, the window, or the chimney. We also know that he could not have been concealed in the room, as there is no concealment possible. When, then, did he come?"

Dear Mr. Watson,
We agree on the Definition of Clubhead Throwaway. However, you are under the mistaken belief that if his Left Wrist looks Flat and Primary Lever looks intact at the point of impact then he passes the acid test for clubhead Throwaway and may collect $200.00 and pass Go and not go to Jail. I, on the other hand, believe that if his Clubshaft becomes inline with his Right Forearm at any time before or immediately following impact that he exhibits the illness “Clubhead Throwaway”. His swing includes the Process of Throwing The Clubhead Away. I simply point out that the Ball got in the way before too much damage was done. Hense: “Controlled Clubhead Throwaway”. Furthermore, and this is an important concept, If he throws the clubhead away, he has not used a Hinge. Hmm? Fry that.

Post #23, Line #1 “Here's sequenced release for sure . . .” Came from your computer. So whether you said it or not, your computer communicated that comment to the Servers at LBG and the Servers at LBG included this statement in the Thread you wrote. Watch your back. I don’t trust computers.:)

PS. Pretty Italian Catholic Nuns, Drink beer and play Golf with Bucket and Daryl. Daryl and Bucket take advantage of them because of yardage distance and win Church money. Bucket and Daryl play Golf in High Heat on crappy courses for Eternity. I'd rather lose to the Pros. Please reconsider.

Does cataloging hurt? Thanks Daryl.

Hey Comet,

I may invite a firestorm of controversy, but I think hitting is "superior" on and around the greens (please allow for my own psychological needs.) I'm not sure how much centrifugal force you can apply to say a 20 yard chip shot...there is simply not a great deal of CF in effect. However, with extensor action and a very marked #3 PP and #1 Acc. you can exercise a great deal of control on short shots.

I am all for an integrated stroke pattern tee to green, but my lab work (ok, the local driving range) suggests more structure is required the closer I get to the hole. Initially, I was disappointed, but now I see the beauty of it. I free wheel (akin to shooting skeet or quail) until I get into the scoring zone (akin to what a Marine sniper does best...Hoorah!) The weakness of this is the bane of every and any procedure, it will not serve us all. Therein lies the genius of Homer Kelley...he essentially took care of ALL of us. I marvel at the likes of Yoda, YodasLuke and Annikan (there are many others using this site, no doubt) who can not only diagnose but accurately prescribe without fear of malpractice!

What up?!
 

Just because you are on to me- doesn't mean that I'm going to stop! Let's just agree to agree- that you don't pay attention to my posts and I don't pay attention to your posts. By the way- don't you think you should clean the keyboard once in a while- I mean look down- no really look down - see all that crap deep in the keyboard- the grease, the chicken, boogers, fingernails, - man you are a mess!

Not so much to disagree with you (Well that is kind of enjoyable)- but more to agree with Daryl- I think he's right on in his analysis of Sergio's throwaway i.e. the quick breakdown after impact. So it's not so much "de-lagging accumulators" as a correction ( I think I read that one of his teachers was working on that or someone commented on that in the media) but creating a situation where he maintains "clubhead lag" past impact- whether that be delagging accumulators - or something else or a combination of things. Great Player! But unless you are winning every tournament - I believe you try to get better and look for where you can improve- If it was my swing ( I wish) then that's an area that looks like it could need improvement. Would really be tough to change a pattern like that- you'd really need to be motivated.

Okie,

I'm sure both techniques would work. I still go thru periods where I let a little CF do the work ...... I think it stems from being a swinger..... it just naturally progresses into all aspects of my game. However, I do find I gravitate to hitting more and more in the short game. If nothing else you FEEL like your more in control of everything, and it seems a bit easier to mete out varying levels of "thrust" or lag pressure when hitting.

As far as putting.... I tried push basic and it just didn't work for me. I've gone more to more of a pendulum motion as put forth by Geoff Mangum. If you haven't seen his site.... www.theputtingzone.com it's worth a look. Some really good info on alignment, aiming, etc... regardless of the stroke techniques employed. Very "science based" information.... a nice complement to TGM.

CG

Bucket,
Thank you for forcing me to think. I understand the Release Motions better than I ever had before this thread and it has helped clear the fog on many related issues. It’s true, you get out of it what you put into it.

I agree 100%. I think exactly the same way about it. For me, inside 50 Yards is Hitting. I can swing from 5 yards, but what's the use? Hitting is a sure thing.

I see.
 

I see in general what you are saying now - no longer confused based on your description. I'd like to post more but I'm working on submitting demolishing plans for someone's house- I'm not saying who- It could be any house in North Carolina- certainly not inferring any particular poster on this forum- well OK they could be a poster on this forum- well more of an imposter posing as a poster- at least based on what I have seen. Enough said need to go.

Puuuuuuuhleeeeeezeeeee . . . .Why would you WANT to change a pattern like that???? Almost to a man those cats on tour say he's the best ball striker out there. That dude needs a brain adjustment more than a swing adjustment.

You'd better push the crack pipe further back under the car seat or you'll be back in the joint dropping the soap on purpose again.

Y'all are AMAZING! This is one of the best swings on the planet.

OK you got me on #23 . . . but that's not the point of my comparison . . . if you and Mike O are going to "de-lag" Sergio and "de-controlled throwaway" him . . . He'll be crying 'cause he couldn't get through second stage three years from now.

If Sergio's "controlled throwaway" then Zach is "controlled steering" . . .

I think Mike O got thrown out of a daycare for wearing a gorilla mask and a nun's get-up . . . with no pants. Hey Mike! You know any crackhead nun's?

"Controlled Steering"? 190 pounds at 120 MPH? How do you Steer That?

My exact point on Sergio . . . 150 lbs at 120 mph . . . with the club that high up from the ball . .. it don't matter what happens much after it's gone when the club is coming down from angle that steep. He'd have to do something major retarded with his hands or his pivot to flip under it.

True: my original point. Sergio doesn't Flip his hands like the Announcers say he does. It's late Release.

Holy pp#3 batman!

This thread took off. Not even sure what the argument is! Took 3 advil, reread the thread, then got in bed - was feeling a little illin, then started rhyming like a bob o dylan.

Good lord.

You guys are insane.

Gather ye rosebuds while ye may.

Patrick

Daryl,

Just following up. Love your posts - very educational.

A few thoughts.

If we go here and see the sequenced pics: http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...?t=5324&page=3

The impact pic (ok barely post impact) still shows flat left wrist and shaft flex - so, not trying trying to be nitpicky, but I see no throwaway, or controlled throwaway (nice term - might apply to Goosen!). The pic just before appears to me to show the face a tad open to the plane line, or square.

But to me, if he were (or is) using simultaneous release - I dont think he would have amount of wristcock he does in this - and it appears he has to swivel into impact from that pic. Dont know. Insane conversation. The pic before impact, his lleft wrist is almost facing the sky - and he is deep with his elbow.

Let me know what you think.

I do see what you are saying about cocking right wrist, but that may be a function of bent right wrist, plus, not sure Homer meant it wouldnt cock a little, just that it wasnt a function of right wrist.

Level isnt really level.

Patrick

Patrick,
Hmm?

First, Thank you.
Second, let me apologize for being blunt (I only sound like a pompous ass, I not, I'm really friendly, and I sound like I know more than I do. My wife told me it's a "defense mechanism").

Referring to the Sequence Pictures of Sergio Swinging an Iron.

The impact pic (ok barely post impact) still shows flat left wrist and shaft flex - so, not trying to be nitpicky, but I see no throwaway, or controlled throwaway (nice term - might apply to Goosen!). The pic just before appears to me to show the face a tad open to the plane line, or square.

Please allow me to adjust your perspective with the following Quote:

"If thrust is applied only to the Left Arm (Handle), the Clubshaft (Swingle) will perform more like a Rope Handle (rising Clubhead pull), but if prestressed by Clubhead Lag Pressure Point pressure, more like an Axe Handle (steady Clubhead Inertia). However, the Primary Lever Assembly is only somewhat flail like. That is, it is bolted together as with a hinge pin, rather than tied together with a thong, so that it can only be “Cocked” and/or “Rotated” per 4-B and 4-C and cannot pass the “Handle” (4-A-2) while moving toward full extension per 2-P. This insures the Imperative Flat Left Wrist (1-L, 2-0). Study 2-F, 6-F-0 and 10-19. As with the standard flail, the true and proper direction for its mass to move is “downward On Plane” regardless of the incidental appearance of moving “forward On Plane.” Always from the Top. This is indispensable for both Hitters and Swingers for inhibiting Clubhead Throwaway. Study 2-K and Chapter 2-P."

In other words (Daryleze), If the Clubhead passes the hands before Full Extension, then the Clubhead and hands were traveling at different RPM’s. That’s a no-no. That’s Clubhead Throwaway. If your Clubhead is traveling at more RPM than your Hands and your Clubhead is in the process of passing your hands but you struck the ball before the Clubhead has passed your hands, then it’s controlled Clubhead Throwaway. That’s great Hand-eye coordination, and, if you're on the Pro Tour, then you still get all of the Money and free drinks if you post the lowest score that weekend. No strokes are deducted for Controlled Clubhead Throwaway. It’s in the PGA Rules.

The pic just before appears to me to show the face a tad open to the plane line, or square.

Good eyes. Sergio looks like the Classic Swinger in this photo. It’s a nice Picture for new Golf Apparel.

But to me, if he were (or is) using simultaneous release - I don't think he would have amount of wristcock he does in this - and it appears he has to swivel into impact from that pic. Dont know. Insane conversation. The pic before impact, his lleft wrist is almost facing the sky - and he is deep with his elbow.

That’s an interesting inference. Must I name his motion a Sequenced Release if his Pivot is doing all of the Rolling?

We have Horizontal, Angled and Vertical Hinge references. However, we also have every imaginable angle in-between (I just wanted to mention that). At the moment this picture was taken, IF Sergio was Hinging I would say in classic TGM lingo, that Sergio is “Between Hinges” at the moment.

Just because the Clubshaft and Left Arm form a Straight Line for a nano-Second, doesn’t mean that he created a Primary Lever to Hinge through Impact. I do agree that his Clubface is closing through Impact. His Clubface does a great impression of a long Horizontal Hinge (Somewhere between Dead Horizontal and Dead Angled). But can we name it “Horizontal Hinge” or “Angled Hinge” by strict definition, if he has no Hinge? :)

Sincerely,
Daryl

Let me say just one more annoying thing.

The question "What is TGM?" is often asked. In the first edition, page 19, 2-G - HINGE MOTIONS, Homer stated: "A truly centered horizontal motion of the Clubface is needed to achieve geometrical precision of Impact". No one in the Golf World can deny this statement but there are many ways to accomplish this goal.

TGM is one Mans search for understanding and teaching to achieve this end. Homer Kelley, and now we, believe and understand that the best way to achieve this end is through the "Hinged Action of an Angular Motion on an Inclined Plane". He wrote a book explaining this so that we mortals can apply these principles and knowledge to our own Swings and once we select component variations we have what's known as our "Pattern".

You must follow the Laws of Physics and Geometry. You don't have to follow TGM. If you don't, you can, and must, forge your swing by beating it out of the ground, as most professional golfers have.

Some professional golfers use Hinging and some don't. For those that Hinge, we have the Homer Kelley "tool box" for analyzing their swings. For those that don't Hinge, we are on our own. HK did not give us the tools to analyze those swings. However, those tools are Catalogued and Referenced in every Golf Magazine, TV Program and Book. To find them, look under the category, "Golf Tips". :)

High Roller
 

Another great post, Daryl. You're on a roll!

:salut:

D . . . Everything complies with Law . . . just depends on which Laws are present and in what combination . . .

Homer said EVERYTHING is workable basically . . . even Pivot Controlled Hands and intentional Clubhead Throwaway.

Now we have been discussing Sergio and I'll submit to you Fred Couples as well . . . The Flat Left Wrist is somewhat misleading . . . it is a GEOMETRIC alignment and NOT ALWAYS an anatomical (sp?) alignment. So could it be due to the nature of their grip and their dependence upon CF that Couples and Garcia's Flail operate in that SEEMS AS IF it's throwaway?

The Flat Left Wrist is rooted in the Law of the Flail. It is the relationship of the Clubshaft and the Left Arm that Homer was describing . . .the Left Wrist can thus be anatomically Flat and Geometrically Flat . . .OR it can be Anatomically Flat and Geometrically Flat . . . but inorder to satisfy the conditions of the Flail it is ALWAYS ALWAYS Geometrically Flat.

Notice the pictures in 2-K . . . there is a true Flail and a Golfers Flail . . . The true Flail CAN BE VALID in golf. I submit that Couples and Garcia seemingly THROW the club . . .BUT the appearce of their wrist conditions can be deceptive . . . You have to have the proper perspective to see it . . .it is the Left Arm and Shaft that must comply.

I used to have a really good picture of Couples getting the club back up plane his left wrist was benter than bent . . . BUT the club was right up the line of his left forearm.

The grip is essentially just how you attach yourself to the golf club. In order for the club to work the hands have to do certain things based on complying with the Law of the Flail . . . the may not always LOOK right if you focus on the hands and not the club and the arm.

In Orlando I was hitting these low lefties . . . very solid but a bit low. . . Lynn comes over and goes . . .Your Flail has to work like this . . . Left wrist cocks and BENDS to get the club out of it's follow through alignments. The ball instantly went up . . . compression increased . . . and ball go straight.

Don't always judge the book by its cover or the golfer by their wrist alignments.

Here's an example of what some may say is a "compromised" Flail. . .

Look at how the club is going up plane right up the left arm . . . Look at frame 6 & 7 wrist bent like a comma but the ALIGNMENT IS PERFECT.



Here's another view . . . Wrist bending but look at the relationship of shaft and Left Arm . .



Here's a Swiveler . . . Same Flail different Wrist Alignments . . .

Time & Space in a Bucket
 

Bucket,


If I could send you back in time (using Mike O's space ship, of course) with Yoda-like knowledge to help a teen version of Boom-Boom would you change anything? The scary thing about people with the intuition that genius supplies is that they can be even better! I think Jones would have been even better with a level right wrist at top etc. I suppose he did not need it to beat the competition of his day! I understand that their are 10 trillion ways to skin this cat, but the greatest inequality is the equal treatment of unequals (Felix Frankfurter.) Good is good but best is better! Freddie's procedure has been rough on his machine! Still, I love to watch that man take a cut at it! :golf:

A Test of 2 Flails
 

Here's to cats with TURNED LEFT HANDS . . .

Both hit fades with a supposed HOOKERS GRIP . .. One goes to the Moon the other burns worms . .

Tell me why based on what you see here . . .