What can I say!:laughing9 :laughing1 :laughing1 :toothy: :grin: :lol: :-D :oops:

Maybe you should ask you?

Hoping not to walk into a sink hole here, BUT, Yoda has and does advocate having and leaving weight on the forward side. Not the same that was in the final piece, as the weight did shift back till hands hip high and then move forward on the way to the top.

I am having mixed results but I need to work on some fitness since spreading my stance a tad has resulted in a small injury, oops.

No I don't beleive it is for only those who wish to play a fade. Granted Hogan took one side of the course out, but he still could work the ball. Small steps at first, hit straight, then work it. JMO.

What happened? You hit the wrong one? :shock: :sick: :cry: :redface:

Really,really funnynemo on ice

This is going to be a pattern with you no? :confused1 :crybaby:

Thanks Martee,
The feeling I get when using the" missing piece " move is of no move to the right -just rotating onto the left leg.Video tells the true story-there is a slight move to the right. One thing is that it does feel like your arms have a lot more room to swing down.For me it also gives the ability to swing shorter -but with a feeling of power.:happy3:

Do you find any differences in your arm swing in downswing when you use this move? It makes me become more of a hitter ( ie. the way that i aply force to shaft and the consequent effect on the clubface orientation).

Once I am on my left hip and i have all that space for the club and right forearm to move into...I seem to naturally favour a downwards thump with my right forearm...

I have tried it and find that I have an early roll of the left wrist/arm from the top of the backswing...ie. release of accumulator 3 to a position where it is square to the plane...left wrist cocked and arched...at about hip height...then i seem to wack it with my right forearm....

Little of this is intentional.... other than the move onto left hip on backswing....

If I try a sequential release after "the move".... then I do not I can square the clubface enough...

For me when I start, a small shift to the right of the weight. Now I need to go a bit slower or have to think about it a bit, but as the hands reach hip high I move the weight to the forward leg while turning the hips as the club travels to the top.

Now what I found is that when I do it the hip rotation, the right shoulder drops a bit, the shoulder get pulled by the hips and the arms are just extended being pulled around and down to a point the hands get to about hip level. It is when this happens I feel as if I am in the picture that Hogan has in his book on page 95. And then it just into the follow through.

Problem I am experiencing is the start of the hip rotation, either I feel as if the right leg is about float away or if I am to apply or feel any pressure, such as a push off, I feel a strain in the muscles leading to some pain.

Obviously I am doing something wrong or maybe my body is not in the physical condition to support the rotation.

But I am working on it and making some adjustments along with practicing the drills.

To me this pivot sets you up to swing more "out" . . . which is interesting since Mr. Hogan was trying to eliminate the left side and "swung left" as VJ says in the book.

Which is why I asked earlier if this move was "anti slice"-to me it is not.
If I apply TGM ,ie I move the ball back, I hit a fade:eyes:

Read the book . VJ explains it.

I HAVE read the book-I can read!
I asked the question in order to get opinions because shot shape is not mentioned much -apart from references to " Five fundamentals"-bowed left wrist for a fade ,flat for a draw.I do not want to bow my wrist ,so I move the ball location as per TGM swinging proceedure .The book does not advocate this,it advocates a constant ball position in relation to the left heel.
Hence my question to promote discussion.

Just an idea, but could it be that your low point (left shoulder) position wasn't as far forward relative to the ball with your regular move, so that using the Missing Piece move has the effect of moving the ball back in the stance? I don't have the book with me, but I seem to recall V.J. discussing this.

Maybe a small adjustment in ball position is all you need.

Is it "more out" or "less over the top" and, therefore, more "on plane"?

I've been hitting balls with this move for a few days now. Suddenly I'm able to feel the "karate chop" coming into the ball. When I do this the impact feeling has a lot of authority, almost like telling the ball: "Behave, or else!". Anyone else experiencing this?

My bad! -I may be able to read but I can't write!
Should read -anti draw.
You may be able to make more sense of the original post now!:redface:

I don't feel like I'm hitting but DO feel my right forearm being thrown-MUCH MORE through release'together with a definite feel of acc#3 "overtaking".

could be . . . but i'd say the farther forward the hips the more the tea cup is tilted thus more out . . . I think it's really hard to go over with the move.

the round bellies
 

I think I can speak with authority as the president of the round belly club, but not with authority on VJ's book.

VJ and I are planning to play golf very soon, so I'm waiting to see him to get my autographed copy of the book. Since I don't have the book, I'm going on the posts and speculation.

I am Hitting, but I use a 4 Accumulator pattern. So, I have a Swinger's Start Down. You may be able to see in these pictures that I move forward about 5 frames with my Hips, as my Clubhead continues back. I've made a small blue mark on my Left Hip to mark the beginning of forward motion. I have made red marks on the Clubhead, as it continues back. This change of direction places a heavy load on the shaft.

This was one of the highest speeds that I've achieved on tape at 123 mph. I'm not sure if this is exactly what VJ's talking about. But, I see this move in players that can really smash the ball.

Seems like we have the same "thumb" for all of these "nails".:confused1

The Whole Truth and Nothing But the Truth
 

I happened to be on hand and witnessed these efforts, both with the dowel and the golf club. I hereby verify the accuracy of the speeds referenced in this thread.

:eyes:

hard to see
 

They're not the same pics. They are six consecutive pictures taken from one stroke. It's hard to tell what's happening, because the marks that I've drawn on the pictures are very small. But, the hips start forward five frames before the club starts down.

In fact, there's a way to give it some action. If you'll open all six windows of pictures on your desktop, you can open the sixth first, and go 6,5,4,3,2,1. Open each of them on top of each other. The first picture should be on top of the six. If you minimize each window, one at a time, you'll see the motion. The hips move forward as the club goes back.

That is pretty much it-although IMO the weight goes even further onto the forward leg, maybe VJ would verify?

I wonder
 

I suspect this leaning in with the hips develops in good players as an anti sway move. One of the constraints of a full backswing is swaying backward if you "overturn". Starting the hips forward allows for a maximum shoulder turn and coil without concern about swaying. Get your ball position adjusted, and you are good to go!

Merry Christmas from

UPP in too chilly to play Ohio (but we got 18 in Saturday) :golf: :laughing9

Hey Ted,

I am curious, if you strive for more right leg lean at the top, if you can increase your swing speed even more.

http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/Hogan-RightHIp.jpg

Hogan has always been the man for me. He was not so good starting out and then rose to the top of the game. Tiger gets nailed by the press for changing his swing from 2000...but Hogan was in constant change, Lynn mentions this on an earlier post.

His swing changed from the '30's to the 40's. Power Golf was written and then nearly a decade later Five Lessons brought forth new fundamentals. Mr. Hogan emersed himself in the swing and kept improving the motions. The written documents and pictures themselves can lead all of us down an introspective road.

Hogan said there must be enough weight on the left side to start the downswing with the rotation of the hips. John Schlee mentions the turning point. Lynn mentions the "Ditty". Ballard talks about the two axis of the swing (But missed the boat in my opinion). Demarott speaks of Hogan's club "bottoming out" in front of the ball. Claude Harmon told one of his assistants that Hogan didn't mention his "huge lateral motion" in Five Lessons. The sequence of the movement of the pivot is the missing piece. He steps forward during his pre shot routine in Shell's...I believe because he wanted that "feel" in his feet but didn't want them to see his sequence...and it is at the exact place he begins to move his center of mass forward when hitting shots.

The Missing Piece isn't clubface control. It is simply Hogan's way of eliminating many unwanted shots. The physics and geometry it sets up explains his belief about planes he describes in Five Lessons. Mark Blackburn and I saw many people for many years that were "running out of right arm" because of where their center of mass was and what it made the left shoulder do. Dave Hamiliton helped me so much with the physics of the motion. All we want to do is contribute to what we have been taught by numerous teachers and players. That is one of the greatest things about the game...we can all share knowledge and pass it down through the generations.

Five Lessons now makes perfect sense.....at least for me.

In Pursuit of Excellence: V.J. Trolio's Quest
 

A great post, V.J., 'on point' and from the heart (as usual). I especially liked this:

"It is simply Hogan's way of eliminating many unwanted shots."

I have known from our first meeting that you are a true 'seeker' . . . One destined (I believe) to be a recognized giant in the world of Golf Instruction. Recent events -- your victory in the 2007 Mississippi Open Championship and now, the publication of your book -- only confirm this view.

I plan on being around awhile longer to watch it happen!

:salut:

And he's the tallest (known) Trolio!

Does anybody have this on video / youtube??

PS . Loved your book VJ - Thanks!

Leader In the Clubhouse (Early Yet)
 

For now, maybe, but keep that yardstick handy. His family of 'little Trolios' are comin' on strong and he's feedin'em good. Won't be long now!

:)

When VJ introduced himself to me[on the driving range at Old Waverley],he said "we're all dwarfs in my Family ,and we can all do this"and proceeded to juggle 3 golf balls. He then said "we should all be in the Circus"
A very funny ,honest ,devoted man.:salut:

Not So Lightweight
 

V.J. Trolio is taller and heavier than was his recent subject, Ben Hogan. Plus, as a junior, he was a ranked Golden Gloves boxing champion.

With all due respect to dwarves, I think I'd tread easy here!

:laughing9

Thanks for explaining. I knew that I should have known better than to doubt one who is endorsed by little green fellow.

Ted Fort, Champion Teacher
 

Thanks, Burner, but Ted Fort, 2006 Georgia PGA Teacher of the Year, needs no endorsement from me.

In addition to being one helluva of a family man, great guy and true friend -- :) -- Ted has been honored by a Georgia PGA membership that includes more than 850 professionals working at over 260 golf courses, clubs, and ranges throughout the state. That said, for the students among us . . .

Nobody wants to learn golf more.

:salut:

P.S. Except me!

:laughing9

A Thousand Words
 

Nice work, Matt. Thanks!

They were his words NOT mine!:)

sure thing!

There is a short segment in the Shell WWoG video where BH gives a quick swing "tip"...he's standing erect & takes a small step toward the trarget as he rotates his hips which "pulls" his arms in front of his body...particularly the righ elbow...it's merely to convey what BH thought was the "feel" of the start of the hip turn sequence and rotation....don't lose any sleep over it as it's not what BH actually did in reality...