Bag
 

Spike,

Most of the top players are very anal. They like things a certain way. You have the 14 clubs. Most carry an extra putter and driver--some much more. My guy has a zip lock bag full of new gloves that he has tried on and approved. He uses a new one everyday. Warms up with the one from the day before, and then hits a few shots with the new one before teeing off. Practices after with same glove. In the bag is an extra towel, raingear (if weather possible), bag for wallet and divot tools, coins, mini first aid kit (tape, bandaids, tape, clippers), 9 balls, sharpies (colored to mark balls and black for lines and autographs), tees, water bottles, snacks, etc. No wonder the thing is so heavy.

HB

Thanks for that, HB and for everything else you've taught us!

I assume this doesn't happen very often???:


Short-term career as pro bag-hauler

Canadian Open player fires caddy on 15th tee; Alexander, 69, steps in

July 27, 2007

Don Alexander, a pretty fair amateur golfer in his younger days, still loves to play the game and he loves watching it when the Canadian Open comes to town.

Yesterday at Angus Glen he got to do more. The 69-year-old Toronto fan was pressed into service as the emergency caddy after U.S. pro Jay Williamson fired his bag-man, named Mike Mollet, at the 15th tee.

"I was the pinch-hit caddy," Alexander told the Star last night, at his downtown home after wrestling the touring pro's 100-pound golf bag the final four holes at Angus Glen. His payment was a dozen new golf balls and a story to tell.

"Every year I love to go out and watch a group that nobody's going to follow except maybe their girlfriends," said Alexander, who played in the 1962 Canadian Open as an amateur. "I love golf and I want to see how these guys make their living out here. I got a pretty good group there, with (Scott) Gump, Williamson and (John) Mallinger. They shot some pretty good scores. There were only a few of us watching them the whole way.

"At the 14th hole, Williamson hit it over the green and he and his caddy started having words. It got hotter and hotter and hotter. I was talking to the caddy's girlfriend and she started giving me the background music and I thought, `Uh-oh. This isn't good.'

"At the 15th tee they went at it again and Williamson fired him on the spot. The caddy then threw a handful of golf balls into the lake and stormed off. Said he'd see him in the clubhouse, that kind of thing. Williamson turned to us – there were maybe five of us – and asked who wanted to go to work.

"A younger guy named Mike said he'd do it. I don't know if Williamson didn't want another man named Mike, or what, but he didn't want him. I said, `I'm your man.'''

Alexander, who played on a couple of Willingdon Cup teams, Canada's amateur team event, in his younger days, went under the ropes, hefted the bag and away they went.

"I told Jay, `You know, you've got talent on your bag. I played in this tournament in 1962. I qualified as an amateur. But I guess that was before you were born.' He said it was. I told him I beat Gary Player that year. Of course, I finished last and Player got disqualified.'''

"I think he had fun," said Williamson, who shot one-over-par 72 and wasn't anxious to discuss the whole incident. "He was a nice guy and he had played some golf."

After the round, Williamson hired a caddy whose player, Kris Cox, had withdrawn with a back injury. So Alexander relaxed at home last night with a beer.

"I think I earned that one," he said. "And if Jay wins this thing and he wants to write me a little cheque, I wouldn't say no."

Asleep


Your right this does not happen very often.

As to who fired whom, like most incidents there are at least two sides to every story. I saw the caddie on Friday and my understanding of the matter is that enough was enough (no caddie should ever take abuse), so he put the bag down, gave two balls to the player, threw the rest in the lake and walked off the course. There is a history here and comments coming from the rest of the group would tend to indicate that the player was way out of line.

The caddie had another job on Friday and the player missed the cut.

By the way a Tour bag weighs closer to 40 lbs than 100.

:salut:

Yeah, I was questioning that 100 lbs.

overkill,
 

could you post up a sample of one of your green charts please?i would be very interested to see it.

and thanks guys for a really great thread!

david mccallum.

David

I'm working on doing such a post; have to figure out how to do it first

The one I'm working on (looks like a top. map) will blow you socks off////

Thanks for the interest


:salut:

looking forward to it.
 

hi overkill,
thanks in advance,im sure it will impress everyone.
david mccallum.

Can't believe that this thread has been dormant for so long. A true treasure trove of knowledge pertaining to playing the game as opposed to swinging the club.

Hoping Bennyhogan and Overkill (is that you nickname on tour?) still looks over us poor hackers, I will chime in with a few questions of my own.

1) How do you know that the chemistry with a player is gone?

2) If you are the first to detect it, will you seek employment elsewhere? (taking one for the team kind of approach)

3) Is crowd control more difficult at certain venues, or is it more depending on your status on the leaderboard?

4) If you have looped at a links course, how does it differ from a normal tourney?

5) Have you looped outside the US? How was that?

No Free Lunch At Caddy Central
 

Regarding the dormancy, I can believe it. And it 'makes the case' for premium content.

Men are busy, and the professional caddy's day is longer than most. To date, neither Henny nor Overkill have asked for a nickel in exchange for their substantial contributions. At the same time, they have significant responsibilities apart from LBG, and it is unfair to ask either to spend their time answering questions and offering professional insights without compensation.

I will approach these fine fellows with the idea of hosting premium content -- a dedicated thread that will include still photos and video -- and let the marketplace determine the demand.

:)

No Free Lunch (At Caddy Central Or Elsewhere)
 

Regarding the dormancy, I can believe it. Further, it 'makes the case' for premium content.

Men are busy, and the professional caddy's day is longer than most. Yet, to date, neither Henny nor Overkill have asked for a nickel in exchange for their substantial contributions.

:salut:

At the same time, it is unfair to ask either to spend their time answering questions and offering professional insights without compensation. It is my responsibility to recognize that situation and offer a 'win-win' for all concerned (contributor and reader alike).

I will broach the idea of hosting premium content -- a dedicated thread with still photos and video. If either (or both) are agreeable, we will sponsor the action, and let the marketplace determine the demand.

:)

Kumabjorn,

1) Player struggling. Caddie and/or player loses faith in the other. You can't help him if he does not trust you (after the break-in period when you both make some allowance). It is a lot like dating....you know the old story...no matter how good looking she is, somebody is tired of her....

2) Complicated question. You might just talk to the player. Sometimes just airing it out helps. If it really is over then your just wasting your time (both). Different times of the year are more difficult to make a change (find a player).

3) Crowd control becomes more difficult as the beverages are consumed. I tend to be very direct and have had patrons removed (it is my job to control it as much as possible).

4) Links golf is fun to caddie. Any time the ball is bouncing and rolling, management difficulty compounds. You have to be prepared for the wind direction changes because a course like St. Andrews plays completely differently on different winds. Strategy is more complex and fun. The player must take on more of the actual shot because it is more intuitive than analytical (How do you caddie an 8 iron from 120 yards that rolls half the way?)

5) Carnoustie, St. Andrews, Lytham, Valderama (2), Metropolitan (Aus), few in Mexico, Canada. All good. St Andrews is awesome.

HB

Even more curious
 

Thanx a lot HB!

I imagine links golf makes for a nice break from target golf, but it might become exhausting if it happened to often.

If you dont mind indulging me, and hopefully some other interested posters, lurkers and readers:

1) What do you guys do when your player has a break? Do you go on your own break, or do you pick up someone else's bag for the week (or two)?

2) How many caddies have a "personal" Career Slam? Fluff and Williams are obvious, maybe Dave Musgrove, but are there any else that has "achieved" something like that? Anyone with four different players (talk about picking players)?

3) What tourneys treat you the best? The worst? USGA? R&A?

4) You guys probably see more airport waiting lounges than Hugh Hefner sees Playmates, has travelling become even more of a burden post 9/11?

Again, appreciate your time and kindness, if you ever have to caddie in Sweden you'll have a place to stay, just drop me a PM.

Hmmm... I think Fluff only has a Masters and a U.S. Open. :think: :think:

It's wind baby
 

It's even harder on parkland in this part of the world in the winter. When the wind blows really hard when one is down wind the wind simply blows the ball down so you loose 4 clubs into the wind, who knows how many down wind. Trajectory is king. Links is in fact easier as at least one can guage the ball running; but on parkland one does not have that luxary.

Thought he had a BO and PGA as well, with Ray Floyd...?

Check out this post. Steve Williams was on Floyd's bag, not Fluff.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

How about Annikas Caddie??

He should have a GS, or?

Kumabjorn,

1) Normally go home. I have worked the odd off week.

2) No idea.

3) Wachovia, Mexico (Mayacoba sp?) Worst.....don't know--it has gotten better the last few years.

4) Big Burden. I used to turn up at my small airport 20 minutes before the flight. My last flight I arrived 2 1/2 hours ahead on the return trip. Another note. Try not to leave Vegas on Sunday evening.

Woaw, that sounds really, really bad. Bet those who caddy for a player using private jets feel pretty lucky. Maybe you guys will go back to car pooling?

I've met a few caddies on the European Tour and it is amazing how the older guys miss the earlier times when they all went by cars to different tournaments. Thy think that it has become a bit to rational and efficient these days. One guy told me about a van they christened The Belgrano (an Argentine man-o-war that was particualarly inept) that four or five caddies would traverse around Europe in and making a few extra bucks by transporting bags for some players. If it was players they didn't like they sometimes swapped shafts in even or odd numered irons, insuring that his yardages would be off for a few days before the prank was discovered.

Any stories like that from the US tour?

Terry McNamara, absolutely. He has been with her for a long time. I'm just thinking that there might be caddies that have achieved a personal GS by picking up the right bag at the right time. One guy might have trotted along with Zach Johnson, Michael Campbel, Ben Curtis and Shaun Micheel, and we wouldn't know about it:)

http://www.caddybytes.com/

Maybe you can dig about on this site and find some info.

Thank you efnef!

K

Happy New Year All

Thank you for the kind words; 'Overkill' is my nickname on Tour; it either has something to do with the fact that I was a Cop for over 30 years, or my prep. work, or my stat work or my detailing or something.

Sorry for the long nap, but I have been busy visiting here there and everywhere for the last while. However, it is now back to golf (work???) and I am leaving for the West Coast on Friday.

Your questions:

1. Here are some signs: When you as a caddie start tune him out; when you allow your player to do things that you know are low %; when your player seems to find something wrong or questions everything you do; when you or your player doesn't seem to care what the other is doing; and when it is no longer fun to come to work///


2. In the last 10 years I have only really detected it with one player and I quit after Westchester. I told him that we were not working together as a team and that staying together was not going to do either one of us any good. I still work with him from time to time, in fact I went to final stage of Eurp. Q school with him last year and he finished in the top 10.

3. I usually find Crowd control more of a problem when there are only a few people around; every little noise stands out and often, it seems no one is paying much attention to what is going on.


4. Yes; the biggest problem I have with links courses is the fact that with split tees, when you start on the back 9, you must leave for the tee at least 30 min. before your tee time. Your player cools down, gets bored, or becomes pissed off, etc. Pebble Beach is one of the worst for me.


5. Yes, several times; British Opens are great, they treat caddies like real people////



:salut:

K

Z. Johnson - no
M. Campbel - no
B. Curtis - no
S. Micheel -no

My personal GS is to caddie in every major event in the world at least once, I have one left; - The Ryder Cup -


:salut:

If you don't mind my asking, Overkill, how did you go from being a cop for 30 years to being a Tour caddie?

Cop to Overkill
 

It's a good story. "Overkill" no doubt due to crossing T's and dotting I's. So much so that the T's and I's might be crossed out. Here's one. OK goes out before play on the day of the tourney. He shoots the pins on the par three's from the blocks and the other holes from somewhere he thinks his player will be. So he tells me the par three numbers. I mark them in my book before the round. (Remember that we shot every head on Monday). I get to the 1st par three, do my normal math, check it against "OK's number"......the same. That is Overkill.

Bigwill

Thanks for the interest

In 1992 (while I was still working in the 'real world') I was asked by a pro friend of mine to caddie for a young Aussie on a course that I knew quite well. The player was looking for an older person who could help him with the Course; caddie experience was not a requirement (good for me)

The short version is that the Aussie won, his first and my first////
He outlasted M Bradley, with S Stricker and C Dimarco right behind

S is a great guy and I was happy to see him play so well in H.

I worked a few more events and then in 1995, J Powell fired his caddie and I picked him up on the range; he was desperate// Anyway, he won the the event; my one and only Senior Tour Event.

Jan 1997 I was asked to by a young player to caddie for him at Lakeland Fl; his first pro event; he didn't win/// However he has since, on both the PGA and the Nationwide.

While at Lakeland, I worked for a player during the Wed. pro am who asked me to come work for him full time. I had told him that I was thinking about retiring after 30 years of policing.

I retired the end of March, the next week I was in Mississippi and three weeks later that same player won his first Nike Tour event, with me of course.

(By the way, that first week in Miss. I worked for one player on Mon., my own player on Tues., another player on Wed. my own player and another player on Thur. Fri. and Sat. and my player on Sun. I made over $1,000 and thought WOW, this could be OK)

At the end of my second year as a "Nike Tour Caddie" I was asked by a young player to go with him the next year to the PGA Tour. Our first year out he won twice and as they say "The rest is history".

I enjoyed my career as a police officer, but the last 10 years have been a great ride; I have been all over the World and have met a ton of wonderful people; including you all//////////


:salut:

That one came as a surprise. R&A for a long time had an abominable reputation among caddies in Europe. Obviously they all loved to be at the Open Championship, but their facilities were restricted to a few porta-potties.

One reason might be that the original St. Andrews caddies usually thought of themselves as the "brain" in the team, the player had it easy, all he had to do was hit the damn shot. They were the ones figuring out what club to use, what kind of shot to hit and were to aim. Sometimes that lead to conflicts with their employers, no at all uncommon that they dropped the clubs and walked into the Auld Grey Toon for a wee nip instead of watching a player botch a game.

But I understand that in the US - unlike on ET - sometimes caddies are restricted to enter locker rooms and may have difficulties in preparing their player's bag.

K

On PGA Tour, caddies are still rarely ever allowed to enter the locker room; in Europe, I have allways been allowed to go where I needed to go.

Golf has become big business (thanks to Tiger). Players, trainers, coachs and caddies form part of a professional team; however, caddies for the most part, are still on the outside, looking in.

For example, on Thursday morning of a tournament last year, it was decided that there was not enough VIP parking, so the caddies, without warning, were sent to another lot, 3 miles away, with no shuttle service back to the course. Several caddies were in trouble, some just abandoned their cars; I was lucky because I came to the Course over 2 hours early.

The Tourn Chair apologized, which was an upstanding move on his part, but the damage was already done///


:salut:

I wonder.......
 

I was lucky because I came to the Course over 2 hours early.

I disagree....:naughty: ....I think you made your own "luck" in that case.

It is not hard to figure out how you got your stage name. The attention to detail and willingness to leave no stone unturned serve you well. I am so glad you are posting here. :salut:

UPP in springlike Ohio :golfcart:

I've lurked for awhile around here, but this thread is an absolute goldmine. Thank you both immensely for your contributions! :thumright

I have a couple of questions for you as well.

1. When you and your pro are, say, 4 or 5 over through the first 9 holes (or 6, for that matter), do you take a different approach to the rest? Obviously, you try and keep target- and shot-oriented, but what else goes on? I know the mindset has to change somewhat, whether you like it or not.

2. You've got a two-shot lead going into the final round of a tournament. How does the approach differ, if at all? What about the final 9 holes? Final 2?

3. Do expectations change from week to week? If your guy has made, say 2 cuts in the first 8 events, is just getting to the weekend the goal? Or conversely, if he has just made 2 or 3 straight top-20s or top-10s, is he solely focused on winning? Obviously expectations may not be openly discussed, as a lot of people advocate avoiding them altogether, but deep down there's got to be a change in confidence level based on past performances. And it seems to me that this change in confidence can affect the level of expectations. Or am I way off :) ?

H

I am a Tech, so here is my approach;

1. When we have a really bad start, we tend to make an extreme change; something that my player has to focus on so he cannot be thinking about anything else. Harbour Town, one year, he shot a 40 on the first nine; on our 10th hole we moved the ball in front of his front foot for a few holes; he shot a 28 and played well for the rest of the week

2. I have been lucky enough to be in this position a few times and everyone was different. On one occassion I had to reign in my player, he became very aggressive in what he wanted to do. On the 17th hole I stood in front of the bag and would not give him a club until he promised me that he would make a conservative play. In another Tourn we were standing on the 18th tee (short par 5) with a one shot lead. We had played it as a par4 all week, but there was some discussion as to whether we should play it as a 3 shot hole. I said, hit your driver and then we can decide; the ball went into a fairway bunker, and I said, now its a three shot hole/////I believe, all things being equal, that your approach should not differ, unless it has to.

3. My short answer is No, if a player does not feel that he has a chance to win, he should stay at home. I believe it was H Ford who was credited with saying that - it doesn't matter if you think you can do something or you think that you cann't, either way you are right- At a tourn in S.C., my player (after missing a few cuts) shot an 81 on Thur. He was going to go home but I talked him into playing on Fri partley because we were the first group off and after playing he could still go home. He hit the cart path with he first shot but managed to make a nice put for birdie. On the way to the second hole, we decided to keep the scuffed ball in play. He shot 31 on the front and 32 on the back (same ball) and made the cut. I kept the ball for several years and then gave it to his son.

P.S. The next week he won////////


:salut:

1. Really depends on how you got over par. If he has "earned it," ie, 5 bogeys vs. one bad hole, I might ask if he is going to shoot 90. He knows he won't do that bad, and sometimes it helps him realize that maybe all the bad stuff has already happened. A bad start could be mental, mechanical, conditions, etc. Just try to address the right thing. One key is to be so grounded in your process and routine that you don't know what you are shooting.

2. Keep doing what you did to get in the lead. We have all seen the college basketball team go into a stall too early and get run over at the end. I think that there is always a correct shot. We try to play that one each time, balancing risk and reward. The last couple of holes can call for a change of strategy based on the lead and what is going on. Mostly, you just keep playing. You should be practicing putting the game away every single day. Be a finisher. It is a mindset.

3. Forrest Gump. Life (golf) is like a box of chocolates. Turn up everyday expecting the best and prepared for the worst. You need to be in the habit of acting like a winner.

I agree with OK's post as well.

Lag
 

Do you know of any tour players that work on LAG? Of course there are 3 kinds... Accumulator, Clubhead, and Pivot Lag.

Clubhead Lag is "the secret". The tour players that I have talked to seem to have always have had lag, and are not really aware of it much... they just have it.

I know a fellow that went to the practice round of a major, and just filmed the hands of players coming into impact. He said every tour player had a forward leaning shaft, every one that he filmed. The only occasional guys that were not quite as good were... some of the club pros... this was the P.G.A. Championship.

If they do work on lag... what do they do?

Lag
 

Lagster,

Pros might work on clubhead lag indirectly. They might hit a lot of low shots to change a feel or pattern. My experience suggests that most have good shaft lean but fleeting face and path alighnments. Always working on matching the path and face (whether they know it or not). They work on it until they get the ballflight they want. Obviously, some players have much greater command. Did you see Tiger break the panes of glass ala Big Break----he had not problem.

I do think that they consciously work on pivot lag. Sequence, tempo, etc, are all related to that strong feeling of power in reserve. More later gotta go.

Very cool.