Is he teaching that third student to "re sheath the sword" at Finish? I do that sometimes on little cut pitches, not sure why. Hmmmm.....

Staying true to the books definitions of things, itd be incorrect in my opinion. In that the the left foot is not on the Arc of Approach or Angle of Approach. The Hands may appear to be over the left foot visually, at Impact however. The Aiming Point and the Impact Hands Location are somewhat related but not fully interchangeable concepts. You do not thrust your lag pressure , the sweetspot at your left foot. The Aiming Point moves but not much , just a few inches fore and aft of the ball along the Arc or Angle of Approach, nowhere near your left foot.

To miss out on Homers actual Aiming Point Procedure is a loss. Its the alternate procedure to Tracing, a geometrical equivalent but with decidedly more DOWN and OUT in feel and in real too. Thrust being cross line, Down and OUt to Both Arms Straight. Moving the Aiming Point fore and aft manages the way longer clubs/levers switch ends, square up slower. Very useful things that the Impact Hands Location doesnt address.

For the record Mr Doyle, as the first A.I., had the insurmountable task of interpreting Homers crazy book of riddles to the masses. He did an amazing job and left a map for the rest of us to follow and refine. Respectfully.

OB,

That anlysis makes perfect sense.

Perhaps you can answer a question for me:

If your using the swinging procedure, and taking the club back to "end", under an Arc/straight delivery path (as stated in the swingers section of Capter 12), once you get on the "spoke" straight line path what is the specific thrust and or aiming point direction after the hands pass the point where they no longer point at the ball? (obviously, they only point at the ball so long).

Or, more simply put, is it actually the hands going in a straight line toward the ball, or the clubhead using lag and monitoring with the #3 pressure point toward the inside aft portion of the ball?

what s the visual line after you have taken it toward the ball?

looks like to me he teaches that to everybody . . . doing that the club never encounters the pulley until LAAAATE. If at all . . .

Ill take a stab at it. Spear at it.
 

Anybody got Yoda's lifeline?

Chip, thanks by the way. I dont wish to be vague but to answer these questions I'd say:

-What would the corresponding answers be if the procedure in question was a throwing of a stone at the golf ball from your golf posture, from Top? Top removing the Arc associated with the move of the Hands from End to Top. Now that would be an Active Right Arm I know , making it Hitting or Right Arm Swinging in golf terms, not 12-2 Swinging per say. But even then with passive Right Arm Swinging the Right ARm is Thrown. Similar to Hogan's book where he describes the baseball player sidearming a ball to first base. (The first base thing could be amended to be Down and OUt at the golf ball or Aiming Point to be more correct, I believe. But he got the OUT part right and the Forward making him 2 for 3 on Three Dimensional Impact).

-per 1-L-15

"The club starts up-and-in after Low Point but thrust continues down plane during the Follow Through."

Meaning the Thrust continues Down Plane and towards the Base Line after Impact up to and including Both Arms Straight. There's just way more Down to be had than most people realize, conceptualize.


Not sure if this answers your questions .....

Cheers.

The answer is almost identical to what yoda told me at cuscawilla a couple of weeks ago.

Nicely done.

To quote "there is no up in the golf machine".

And, it works!

I had gotten so obsesed with that doyle type impact position, i had started from impact fix. Correcting me to midhands/classic also made a dramatic improvement in the ball striking. Took the man all of five minutes to get that straightened out.

Like others, wish i had know about this in the 70's!

I watched videos from Gregg McHatton that studied under Ben Doyle and Rick Nielson that is a student of McHatton, I watched Doyle's free videos as well. I looks to me they teach pivot controlled hands. McHatton insists a lot on soft wrists and hard work from the pivot, and I get the same feeling from seeing Ben Doyle in his video teaching students. My guess is that with pivot controlled hands they preferred to change the aiming point concept since they might not want to put "the mind on the hands".

I think McHatton and Doyle part ways on that from my perspective . . . how do you have soft wrist and try to get the handle pointing at the target when your hands are covering your peter in the downstroke with your right elbow at your navel . . . looks like a recipe for tilting back and flashing the face . . . to me . . .that ain't Rhythm. Sorry I know this may be some sort of throwing stones at an apostle but this is off-plane plane handle raising tilting back to me. Accumulators release . . . how are you gonna get to the ball with that much trigger delay and shaft lean without tilting back?

This is a problem IMO with how the machine is taught . . . the hands don't go in a straight line to the ball for very long . . . that is going to produce off plane mechanics. If your intention is to move the hands in a straight line effort straight to the ball . . . think of how the club is going to respond . . . if you pull the handle and hands out the clubhead is going to lay down and stay behind . . . the handle certainly works down but then the butt cap also is going to work back toward your center so the clubhead can move down and OUT to the ball. If you take your hands all the way to the ball your have to uncock your wrists UNDER working the sweetspot underneath. Kinda like your left thumb uncocks underneath. If you work the handle back "into your center" the left thumb is going to uncock OUT TO THE PLANE LINE. You have to balance both ends of the club to be on plane. To me Doyle is teaching an underneath uncocking deal which results in too much perverted axis tilt and the right shoulder motion doesn't get far enough forward so he has to make the left wrist the center of the stroke rather than the left shoulder. Hogan and Doyle release the club COMPLETELY different. I'm sure people look at those static pictures of Hogan with acute angles and think "I gotta replicate that picture". Look at where the club is in space. . . you can't play effective golf with that much "angle" left IMO. Trigger delay may look hot . . . but when you pull her skirt up . . . you may get shocked.

The late Release does add power and Hogan's swing is so beautiful but its not for everybody. Where would Steve Stricker be today if he'd gone back home three years ago to work on Snap Release?

For the Swinger #2 Angle Throwout is Velocity Power. 4,2,3 with 2 providing most of the snot. Imagine throwing a club down the fairway .....first with a longitudinal spear chucking action, then with a whirling radial. The last one goes way further. #2 Throwout and Throwaway are not the same!!!!!! Homer was not anti Throwout!!!!!!

The longitudinal acceleration delays Release , CF Throwout, but Throwout is what its all about. See Release Triggers. Like a three stage rocket ......its all about getting that third stage in the right place at the right time going a certain speed so it can then do its thing.

Most guys dont have enough Longitudinal, they throwout radially too early , its far less common but too much longitudinal is a problem too.

If the ski boat never takes the corner (radial) the skier never gets thrownout , never gets going any faster than the boat speed. Straight line, longitudinally, they accelerate together with no cf throw out forces in play, then the boat takes the corner and the skiers speed accelerates sharply, Radially.

Ive got my lab coat here but I dont think the Hands can really go straight line for any length of time but......some paths are straighter than others and have less CF throwout forces in play during Longitudinal. Mr Doyles Hand Path for instance is a straight ish one. Stopping at Top helps I believe. Mr Yoda does this as well and I dont think its because he's 600 years old. Hogan floated from End to Top and then went straightish line with the Hands. He's getting his skier aligned behind his boat or on the other side of the direction of throwout.

I did some doodles on this a while back maybe Ill put em up some day for everyone to have a laugh. The other consideration is the move from the Pivot Center to the left shoulder as Center of the Arm Swing during Release, in my diagram the radius gets longer in the process......like a bike switching gears. Got my goggles and pocket protector on now too.

I dunno , its a crazy game, a nutty book and its played by a bunch of lunatics. Anyone who's reading this is nuts.