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-   -   "Use the Bounce of the club" means what in the shortgame???? (excludes bunker shots) (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4660)

nuke99 06-20-2007 03:33 PM
Now question is,, how to have flat left wrist and center ball position and a vertical shaft ...at impact ... hum....

Also in chipping many teacher including Tom Tomasello uses Heel up ... cool way to use a bounce isn't it?

300Drive 06-20-2007 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuke99 (Post 42969)
Now question is,, how to have flat left wrist and center ball position and a vertical shaft ...at impact ... hum....

Also in chipping many teacher including Tom Tomasello uses Heel up ... cool way to use a bounce isn't it?
....Not quite vertical, and certainly not "hitting" down on the ball.

The cool thing about the book for me, is it forces me to think of options....and when it comes to short game, you must be creative, imaginative, and have an arsenal of shots for the situation at hand.

BTW, I am sure Seve B, (a short game guru), used throwaway quite a bit.

Martee 06-20-2007 04:04 PM
If you look at his pictures and then compare it to the text, it doesn't track too well.

The idea of having a cup wrist for pitch shots, cupping the wrist on the backstroke, bowing the wrist for chips to control trajectory, minimal shaft leaning on chips while even advocating laying back the shaft on pitches makes his technique appear to be more complex than needed. Then we take the changes at address position with the hands lower, etc....

On my second read. I think he has done a great job on identify faults and causes, but his written technique vs pictures along with some catch words seems off to me.

He beleives the pitch shot is high, little spin, lands softly and stops. He seems to be very much anti-back spin and pro-trajectory and run out.

nuke99 06-20-2007 04:07 PM
Seve B ... in some of his video in some magazines somewhere.. remember him saying soft arms, left arm must Bend after impact ... to aid softer shots... so ... no extensor action with chicken wing? ...


We need to keep an open mind. this short game thingie is making me confused cuckle

asleep 06-21-2007 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuke99 (Post 42974)
Seve B ... in some of his video in some magazines somewhere.. remember him saying soft arms, left arm must Bend after impact ... to aid softer shots... so ... no extensor action with chicken wing? ...
Ballesteros chipped with ball forward, hitters type extensor action into a vertical shaft at low point. Left arm bends with inside of left elbow tracing around the (left side) body above the beltline.

Click here to see: Seve demonstrating ball control with clubhead ;)

Martee 06-21-2007 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martee (Post 42829)
Stan Utley advocate and suggest golfers fail to use the bounce correctly for the short game shots. He uses primarily a 58* 12* bounce for almost all his chips, pitches and bunker shots. Also he talks about hitting a ball off of concrete using his style.

He just came out with a book, The Art of the Short Game, June 2007 Stan Utley.
YUP... That what I thought and then decided to try it.

Well it takes a bit to get use to, at least for me.

Interesting the pitch shots I hit from 15 to 40 yds, I don't think they were more that 3 feet from where they hit. Not much spin and no they aren't going to back up.

This reminds me of the dead hands shot the Ken Venturi used to advocate.

I do think he has a lot of good info on faults and causes in his book. Though I think it is not written well and someone with a dictionary of buzz words seems to have injected them into the text.

I have read it twice now, took notes, tried it. Will I change? That remains to be seen, I will definitely add some of what he has to my tool set but to change wholesale, not sure I am ready for that.

300Drive 06-22-2007 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martee (Post 43008)
YUP... That what I thought and then decided to try it.

Well it takes a bit to get use to, at least for me.

Interesting the pitch shots I hit from 15 to 40 yds, I don't think they were more that 3 feet from where they hit. Not much spin and no they aren't going to back up.

This reminds me of the dead hands shot the Ken Venturi used to advocate.

I do think he has a lot of good info on faults and causes in his book. Though I think it is not written well and someone with a dictionary of buzz words seems to have injected them into the text.

I have read it twice now, took notes, tried it. Will I change? That remains to be seen, I will definitely add some of what he has to my tool set but to change wholesale, not sure I am ready for that.
Agree with not changing everything. I like his chipping; my results with it have yielded more precitability and control.

I like hit pitching for "certain situations" (i.e., back pins, wind, etc). BUT, I still need the compression pitches as well for tucked pins.

neil 06-28-2007 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300Drive (Post 42967)
I was talking about the shaft being vertical to the ground and impact, so there may be ever so slight of a flat left wrist at impact. I summize thats Utleys technique is more of a "draw" motion (inside to inside swing, with mid ball position), with the body pivot doing the work.

Certainly, if you add throwaway, which many times is needed, you will soften the shot, and have little run-out.

Think of the courses we play and for those who do not always hit the green we have 4 places we can miss (excluding bunkers), short where we are on fairway type grass, or left, right, or past the green, where we are more likely to find some rough. And its from the rough that we need height to land the ball and allow it to run (or not run depending on the distance we have to throw it way up in the air) to the hole. Spin from the rough is tougher to come by. So, I think these are the areas that are ripe for the cuts, lobs, flops, and........throwaway!
You could also play all the above shots WITHOUT throwaway;)

300Drive 06-29-2007 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil (Post 43209)
You could also play all the above shots WITHOUT throwaway;)
Nice to have options.

Scottgas2 07-22-2007 06:44 PM
Could someone please describe "throwaway" as it applies here.
If Utley can insert jargon. Can LBG be far behind?


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