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innercityteacher 11-08-2012 01:41 PM

Looked at lots of videos!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94117)
Have you had time to review videos (in slo-mo) to confirm that all good ball strikers have their flying wedges aligned at impact to 90 degrees?

We are supposed to have 65 degrees on the weekend here, Daryl, so we have a tee time on Saturday.

I have looked at 30 videos at least, and have purchased the "key", bent right wrist device. The 90 degree angle of the wedges, sustained through impact, make the combination Horizontal Hinge with lay-back work like a charm! :read:

ICT

innercityteacher 11-08-2012 01:47 PM

MSP/Turtle Creek/Chicago? Wow!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KevCarter (Post 94110)
I would love for you guys to come up. Unfortunately, MSP is the closest airport, but that would be perfect for you and Jerry to make the drive up together. The best bet for Daryl would probably be to drive. Probably a little over 5 hours, but an easy drive. We could all go to Chicago as well...

Kevin

President Obama better take the regulations off the Keystone Pipeline, the Coal industry, the Natural Gas industry, and offshore drilling so we can have an economy to get tax revenues from. :( we heard today that my school district is closing 40 schools at the end of this year, and even with 10 years in the system and two permanent state certifications in Computer Technology and Business, I will feel the need to either re-certify or re-locate to keep my job.

ICT

innercityteacher 11-08-2012 01:53 PM

90 Degrees like Jack Nicklaus!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94117)
Have you had time to review videos (in slo-mo) to confirm that all good ball strikers have their flying wedges aligned at impact to 90 degrees?

Here is another something wonderful from our Forum:

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showt...ght=90+degrees


Quote:

FL-John's Avatar
FL-John FL-John is offline
Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Port Charlotte, FL
Posts: 49
Yoda spoke very specifically about this in the Martee CD. I am going to point you to the picture gallery from the Pine Needles workshop on Chuck's site:

http://www.chuckevansgolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559

The pictures on the left are numbered. Look at the sequence of photos with the numbers 8546, 8547, 8548, & 8549. As you will see, the first two photos have Yoda's arm 'tucked in'. When he explained this on the Martee CD, he said Homer did not like this position as the right arm gave no support to the Lever Assembly. In the latter of the two photos, you will see how he positions his right forearm at more of a 90* angle to the left arm/lever assembly.

On the CD, he went on further to say that the best support is given at 90*. When we stand right here today, we apply a force at a 90* angle to the ground. This is also the reason Homer has been quoted as saying "Jack Nicklaus had the best right elbow in golf"....sure it looks like its flying, but it is also giving strong structural support to the lever assembly. I just noticed you can also a 'Top of Backswing' photo of Jack on the wall...notice the positioning/alignment of his right forearm to the lever assembly...pretty close to 90*.

If you look at the pictures of Diane in TGM, notice her rt. arm position at the top of any photo. It may not always be 90*, but it is definitely not tucked in tight!!!

Hope this helps!

FL-John

innercityteacher 11-08-2012 01:59 PM

More Fun at 90 degrees!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 94120)
Here is another something wonderful from our Forum:

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showt...ght=90+degrees

Quote:



This is a precision alignment for Swinging and Hitting! This is now the first wobble I check so I see my right wrist red dot always looking at me.

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showt...ght=90+degrees


Re: Push-Pull Rams
Originally Posted by Bagger Lance
Trig,

Start with The Flying Wedges 6-B-3-0-1.
Then when you've had a cup of coffee or jolt cola, read 7-3 very carefully.

By the way. There is a typo in the glossary for "Flying Wedges". The Mechanical definition should read 90 degrees, not 98 degrees.

Bagger
Good tip Bagger.

Per 6-B-3-0-1:

"...the Right Forearm and the Clubshaft are, in like manner, positioned on the plane of the Right Wrist Bend AT RIGHT ANGLES TO THE LEFT ARM PLANE. That is the precision assembly and alignment of the Power Package basic structure and is mandatory during the entire motion. Hitting or Swinging."
Without this, there is no G.O.L.F.!

innercityteacher 11-08-2012 02:12 PM

A NEXT LEVEL event
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 94121)
Without this, there is no G.O.L.F.!



This is so important! If I were teaching a person, and I did the other day on the range, I would make him reproduce the 90 degree wedges with Chips, Pitches, Punches, and full shots over an alignment stick. (I carry 4 theses days!)

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=56256&highlight=90+degrees#post56 256




Quote:

The Next level

FeverPowerful wrote:

Quote:

Also, remember that the entire Right Forearm Flying Wedge -- the Right Elbow, the Forearm, the Bent Right Wrist, the No. 3 Pressure Point and the Rigid Extension, i. e., the dowel -- will remain on the Horizontal Plane throughout. The Big Deal is to set the Right Wrist in a Rigid Bent Right Wrist Condition and then hold it throughout the 'Backstroke' and 'Throughstroke.'



Yoda,
are you saying that the dowel will be parallel to the ground throughout?



In this drill, absolutely. You must get the 'Feel' of maintaining the entireRight Forearm Flying Wedge Assembly in the same Plane. The Assembly willonly be on the Angled Plane of the Stroke from Release through theFollow--Through. But the Assembly will be in its own Plane throughoutand will be positioned at 90 degrees to the Left Arm Flying Wedge (6-B-3-0-1).

It is this Mechanic -- the On Plane Right Forearm Flying Wedge -- thatmust become a 'Describable Sensation' (1-J) and incorporated into your Strokeas an Identifiable Feel. When you can do this, you will go to the Next Level.

Trust me.
We do Lynn, and thanks to Daryl, Kev Carter, Jerry, OB and all the fine people at LBG!

Daryl 11-08-2012 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 94118)
We are supposed to have 65 degrees on the weekend here, Daryl, so we have a tee time on Saturday.

I have looked at 30 videos at least, and have purchased the "key", bent right wrist device. The 90 degree angle of the wedges, sustained through impact, make the combination Horizontal Hinge with lay-back work like a charm! :read:

ICT

Hmm? Although you will get Lay-Back if you trace the Angle of Approach, you would normally generate a substantial Finish Swivel by Tracing the Plane Line.

Do you agree?

Daryl 11-08-2012 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 94119)
President Obama better take the regulations off the Keystone Pipeline, the Coal industry, the Natural Gas industry, and offshore drilling so we can have an economy to get tax revenues from. :( we heard today that my school district is closing 40 schools at the end of this year, and even with 10 years in the system and two permanent state certifications in Computer Technology and Business, I will feel the need to either re-certify or re-locate to keep my job.

ICT

I'm afraid that it's going to be more of the same with a few added crowd pleasing reforms. Save the planet, etc.

We need to find a new use for "coal". We'll have plenty of it to go around.

Quote:

Uses of Coal

Access to modern energy services not only contributes to economic growth and household incomes but also to the improved quality of life that comes with better education and health services. All sources of energy will be needed to meet future energy demand, including coal.

Coal has many important uses worldwide. The most significant uses are in electricity generation, steel production, cement manufacturing and as a liquid fuel. Around 6.6 billion tonnes of hard coal were used worldwide last year and 1 billion tonnes of brown coal. Since 2000, global coal consumption has grown faster than any other fuel. The five largest coal users - China, USA, India, Russia and Japan - account for 76% of total global coal use.

Different types of coal have different uses. Steam coal - also known as thermal coal - is mainly used in power generation. Coking coal - also known as metallurgical coal - is mainly used in steel production.

The biggest market for coal is Asia, which currently accounts for over 67% of global coal consumption; although China is responsible for a significant proportion of this. Many countries do not have natural energy resources sufficient to cover their energy needs, and therefore need to import energy to help meet their requirements. Japan, Chinese Taipei and Korea, for example, import significant quantities of steam coal for electricity generation and coking coal for steel production.

Other important users of coal include alumina refineries, paper manufacturers, and the chemical and pharmaceutical industries. Several chemical products can be produced from the by-products of coal. Refined coal tar is used in the manufacture of chemicals, such as creosote oil, naphthalene, phenol, and benzene. Ammonia gas recovered from coke ovens is used to manufacture ammonia salts, nitric acid and agricultural fertilizers. Thousands of different products have coal or coal by-products as components: soap, aspirins, solvents, dyes, plastics and fibers, such as rayon and nylon. Coal is also an essential ingredient in the production of specialist products:
  1. Activated carbon - used in filters for water and air purification and in kidney dialysis machines.
  2. Carbon fibre - an extremely strong but light weight reinforcement material used in construction, mountain bikes and tennis rackets.
  3. Silicon metal - used to produce silicones and silanes, which are in turn used to make lubricants, water repellents, resins, cosmetics, hair shampoos and toothpastes.

Pennsylvania

Production
Pennsylvania is the fourth leading coal producing state, mining 68 million tons last year. Almost 80 percent of this output came from 39 underground mines and the remainder from 377 surface mining and reprocessing sites.

Economic Value

In addition, the Pennsylvania mining industry constitutes a major source of employment and tax revenue. Last year, it created 49,100 direct and indirect jobs with a total payroll in excess of $2.2 billion. Taxes on these wages netted over $700 million to the coffers of federal, state and local governments.

innercityteacher 11-08-2012 11:27 PM

Nice Economics lesson Daryl!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94123)
Hmm? Although you will get Lay-Back if you trace the Angle of Approach, you would normally generate a substantial Finish Swivel by Tracing the Plane Line.

Do you agree?

Umm, I have been tracing the Plane Line and not the Angle of Approach to guarantee the new width I am enjoying in the swing. I also do this thing where I simply trace the Plane Line and feel perfectly horizontal leaving my right foream facing the sky behind me with my left arm straight back and stand very tall before I simply do a parallel hip bump. I think I may be producing an Angle Hinge since the ball seems to jump higher and either stay straight or fade depending on the ball placement and stance. I'm not sure of the TGM category for this but I imagine it very effective shooting to the green or on a narrow fairway.

ICT

Daryl 11-09-2012 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 94126)
Umm, I have been tracing the Plane Line and not the Angle of Approach to guarantee the new width I am enjoying in the swing. I also do this thing where I simply trace the Plane Line and feel perfectly horizontal leaving my right foream facing the sky behind me with my left arm straight back and stand very tall before I simply do a parallel hip bump. I think I may be producing an Angle Hinge since the ball seems to jump higher and either stay straight or fade depending on the ball placement and stance. I'm not sure of the TGM category for this but I imagine it very effective shooting to the green or on a narrow fairway.

ICT


Well. An effort to Move the #3 PP toward the Ball or Aiming Point, assuming an On-Plane Club, the Club will consequently Trace the Plane Line.

If you do not encounter a substantial Finish Swivel, then you are Tracing the Angle of Approach. This adds Lay-Back to the Horizontal Hinge and is essentially, an Angled Hinge.

Although this procedure is easy to perform, it can be done so inadvertently and caused directly from a faulty Pivot.

What say you? Are you experiencing a substantial Finish Swivel or Not?

innercityteacher 11-09-2012 12:56 AM

I thought it was an Angled Hinge!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94128)
Well. An effort to Move the #3 PP toward the Ball or Aiming Point, assuming an On-Plane Club, the Club will consequently Trace the Plane Line.

If you do not encounter a substantial Finish Swivel, then you are Tracing the Angle of Approach. This adds Lay-Back to the Horizontal Hinge and is essentially, an Angled Hinge.

Although this procedure is easy to perform, it can be done so inadvertently and caused directly from a faulty Pivot.

What say you? Are you experiencing a substantial Finish Swivel or Not?

When I Swing by setting my Bent Right Wrist at my shoulder and Pivot covering the ball with my shoulder (Tracing the Angle), I feel as if I am doing one long Finish Swivel but when I set my hands back and level and parallel bump (Tracing the Plane), it feels like a very dramatic quick Finish Swivel. I think this makes sense!

And here is a video of 90 degree fever from the Masters with lots of different players!

http://youtu.be/__0ju0Z_EYE

Daryl, I thought a dramatic Finish Swivel indicated always a Horizontal Hinge and the Angle Hinge was more subtle but I see how I could be totally wrong about that. More research needed!

ICT

Daryl 11-09-2012 09:24 AM

When I Swing by setting my Bent Right Wrist at my shoulder and Pivot covering the ball with my shoulder (Tracing the Angle), I feel as if I am doing one long Finish Swivel but when I set my hands back and level and parallel bump (Tracing the Plane), it feels like a very dramatic quick Finish Swivel. I think this makes sense!

Yes. very dramatic quick Finish Swivel = Horizontal Hinge

And here is a video of 90 degree fever from the Masters with lots of different players!

http://youtu.be/__0ju0Z_EYE


These Videos are excellent examples. They show each Player with some sort of Shoulder Take-away, and yet they ALL acquire the 90 degree Wedge Alignment at the end of their Backstrokes. Each of them sustains that Alignment through Impact. All of them are Horizontal Hinging. Not a single one of them uses a coordinated Downstroke Acceleration Sequence. All of them are using every muscle fiber to accelerate the clubhead. That flipping at Impact is their way of reducing the "Approach/Separation" speed of the Clubhead because they don't sustain the Lag. It just goes to show how Awesome these players have developed their skills.

As a side note: only a few of them are using an "Automatic Release". Most are using "Non-Automatic". Look at Sergio, Automatic. So,,,I guess that Release Type is simply Optional.


Daryl, I thought a dramatic Finish Swivel indicated always a Horizontal Hinge YES and the Angle Hinge was more subtleYES but I see how I could be totally wrong about that. More research needed!


Maybe I was confused about what you were saying. I though you were adding "Layback" and that you thought that was HH.

innercityteacher 11-09-2012 02:16 PM

I am adding layback to both.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94130)
When I Swing by setting my Bent Right Wrist at my shoulder and Pivot covering the ball with my shoulder (Tracing the Angle), I feel as if I am doing one long Finish Swivel but when I set my hands back and level and parallel bump (Tracing the Plane), it feels like a very dramatic quick Finish Swivel. I think this makes sense!

Yes. very dramatic quick Finish Swivel = Horizontal Hinge

And here is a video of 90 degree fever from the Masters with lots of different players!

http://youtu.be/__0ju0Z_EYE


These Videos are excellent examples. They show each Player with some sort of Shoulder Take-away, and yet they ALL acquire the 90 degree Wedge Alignment at the end of their Backstrokes. Each of them sustains that Alignment through Impact. All of them are Horizontal Hinging. Not a single one of them uses a coordinated Downstroke Acceleration Sequence. All of them are using every muscle fiber to accelerate the clubhead. That flipping at Impact is their way of reducing the "Approach/Separation" speed of the Clubhead because they don't sustain the Lag. It just goes to show how Awesome these players have developed their skills.

As a side note: only a few of them are using an "Automatic Release". Most are using "Non-Automatic". Look at Sergio, Automatic. So,,,I guess that Release Type is simply Optional.


Daryl, I thought a dramatic Finish Swivel indicated always a Horizontal Hinge YES and the Angle Hinge was more subtleYES but I see how I could be totally wrong about that. More research needed!


Maybe I was confused about what you were saying. I though you were adding "Layback" and that you thought that was HH.

Yes sir I am! I am always adding "lay-back" to the shoulder covering and dramatic Finish Swivel.

ICT

innercityteacher 11-10-2012 11:27 PM

Simple, smooth 85 after not playing in 3 weeks!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 94135)
Yes sir I am! I am always adding "lay-back" to the shoulder covering and dramatic Finish Swivel.

ICT

It took me 9 holes to get comfortable tracing the Plane line keeping my right wrist up and the takeaway felt so horizontal! 50 degrees outside and I was as far off the tee as I am each Spring and dead in the middle of the fairway.

Ball position for irons was off or my Pivot was so smooth for my driver the ball was always on line but short. Shot a 44 but it was very easy, meaning I missed 6 putts from 15 in feet for par since my chips weren't sharp. Also, I didn't keep a stable head through impact as the ball was not in the right position.

Slid my ball position back on the next 9, covered with my shoulder trusting the Horizontal Hinge and stayed down and through and gained distance and accuracy on drives and irons for a 41. ( I actually imagined my shoulder carrying my Bent Right Wrist down and through the shot.) 4 long birdie attempts > than 25 feet but no joy and 3 birdie attempts within 10 feet but uhmm, :( I gave up hitting a fade and either hit a straight shot or a baby draw.

I did hit two 3 woods fades from an open stance that worked very well cutting across the back of the ball inside the front shoulder.

Still, it was the easiest 85 I can remember. As I started to trust my Horizontal Hinge, I started to trust my Pivot and really hit through the ball. I wanted to play another 18 but a storm front was coming through. Very exciting! :golfcart:

And my 8 degree driver flew as high as I needed it to!

ICT

innercityteacher 11-11-2012 12:18 AM

Very good view of a prolonged start-up swivel held into impact!

http://youtu.be/Xh2JO2hiuNk

We have a pond 200 yards down the left on mirror holes on 8 and 9 with narrow openings and large trees on the right. Today for the first time ever I played a draw or Horizontal Hinge on both, parred both and had birdie putts on both. Ball must be or feel very back in my stance.

ICT

innercityteacher 11-11-2012 12:56 AM

Found it!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 94140)
Very good view of a prolonged start-up swivel held into impact!

http://youtu.be/Xh2JO2hiuNk

We have a pond 200 yards down the left on mirror holes on 8 and 9 with narrow openings and large trees on the right. Today for the first time ever I played a draw or Horizontal Hinge on both, parred both and had birdie putts on both. Ball must be or feel very back in my stance.

ICT



We have a winner!

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=56276&highlight=ball+position#pos t56276



Quote:

Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,632
A Place To Put It
brianmanzella wrote:

Now what about the FOOLish ideas of the BEST THREE IRON PLAYERS that ever walked the EARTH, Ben Hogan, Jack Nicklaus and Johnny Miller...they all used (in their primes) one forward ball position.





Tonight I received a PM about the Ball location 'problem.' Namely, the fact that some authorities recommend one location (up front) and others, notably one Homer Kelley, recommend moving the Ball progressively farther back as Shaft length decreases (6-E-2). My reply reminded me that I had not yet responded to Brian's post. There are many things that deserve comment, but first the main course, dessert later!

That's a joke, Brian!

Anyway...

Read 6-E-2 and the Fog will lift, or at least it will get you out of the 'pea soup' variety. The ball must be moved back for the shorter clubs.Otherwise, you will struggle constantly for consistency (because the Ball ain't where it's supposed to be).

The 'one position' location -- near or just off the Left Heel -- has long been recommended by many fine teachers, including Jack Grout, who gave Jack Nicklaus his first lesson at the age of ten. And the fact that Jack subsequently became The Greatest Player In The History Of The Game did not diminish the popularity of the recommendation.

In fact, it affected -- infected would be a better word -- an entire generation of golfers, including the above Quote-referenced Mr. Miller. But it didn't influence Hogan. No sir. He had the information way ahead of time, and in 1957, with Jackie Nicklaus just out of knee pants, he published it in his book, Five Lessons.

Now, it truly would be wonderful if that one forward location would be forever and always the best place to put the Ball. Sadly, it is not. And per 6-E-2, it is not going to be -- no matter how many great players recommend it or how many miracle clubs are brought to market or how exaggerated their manufacturers' claims. It just ain't gonna happen. Unless, of course, they start making all clubs the same length! Then, with the Sweet Spot properly located on the face of each club, maybe so! Of course, we might experience some distance control problems. You know, 200-yard sand wedges, that kind of thing.

But I digress. Back to Messrs. Nicklaus, Miller, and Hogan...

First, recall that Jack Nicklaus, in his day, was known as the longest and straightest driver in history. He played the Ball off his Left Heel. At the same time, he was also known as one of the worst wedge players on Tour.He played the Ball off his Left Heel.

Second, both Jack Nicklaus and his emulator, Johnny "It's always better when you beat Jack" Miller, had tremendous 'leg drive.' Good players know that you can move the Ball around a lot in the stance and still hit a perfect Shot. And they do that by where they direct their Thrust through Impact. In The Golfing Machine that is called the Aiming Point, and it is explained in 6-E-2.

So, the good player can artificially adjust his Aiming Point to compensate for an otherwise deficient Ball Location, and that is exactly what these two gentlemen did. But not without effort! Have you ever watched Jack's leg drive?I mean, in person? Feel the swoosh? How about Johnny's? Now "That's a spicy meatball!"

Anyway, there's no question that from that forward Ball location, both men produced a lot of very good golf shots "in their prime."Interestingly though, as time went on, they discovered to their amazement that they hit even more very good golf shots -- and less very bad ones --by moving the Ball back as the Clubs got shorter.

In fact, both Jack and Johnny wrote books -- maybe not as spring chickens but still playing well enough to sell a lot of books -- and in those books they did the ultimate mea culpa. They both said they were wrong to have played the Ball so far forward with their irons all those years. And that now they had corrected that mistake and were playing the Ball farther back. Nicklaus was happy to report that his wedge play had improved markedly. Go figure!But...Oh, say it ain't so, Joe! But say it they did, and they hung it out in print for all to read.

Finally, what of the Wee Ice Mon, Bantam Ben Hogan? And what about what he said in that book of his? Somebody asked one of his favorite playing partners, Jay Hebert, that same question just after the book came out. Here's what Jay had to say:

"I've played hundreds of rounds with the guy, and I can tell you that he plays almost every iron shot in front of or just behind the middle of his stance."

Oh me.

__________________
Yoda

And hybrids too, imho!

ICT

innercityteacher 11-11-2012 01:03 AM

Another relevant goodie I forgot!


http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2456&highlight=ball+position#post 2456

Quote:

Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,632
Getting A Fix On Fix
Originally Posted by 8cork
I guess I still have some fog about the positon the body is in at impact fix. Should I have some hip slide in order to get my hands to be more mid body, or should I just have my hands forward (over left foot) and hips be more square?

Except for special situations, the Body at Fix (and, hence, at Impact) is in a 'comparatively squared away' position (10-8-A). That means that the Hip Turn is slightly leading the On Plane Right Shoulder and that the Weight is slightly left. Your Stationary Head has remained between your Feet and your spine has retained its Forward Lean (Snead to Eisenhower: "Butt out, Mr. President."). This last item is essential to proper Right Forearm Plane Line Tracing through Impact.
__________________
Yoda

innercityteacher 11-11-2012 10:40 AM

Great views of Luke Donald face on!

Sand, Driver, Irons with his narrative!

http://youtu.be/bQaLIyvxZ64

Daryl 11-11-2012 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 94139)
It took me 9 holes to get comfortable tracing the Plane line keeping my right wrist up and the takeaway felt so horizontal! 50 degrees outside and I was as far off the tee as I am each Spring and dead in the middle of the fairway.



ICT

Why?? You should be good from the start. Something is wrong.

Daryl 11-11-2012 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 94140)
Ball must be or feel very back in my stance.

ICT

Well there ya go. That's a problem. Hands can't reach Impact Location so ya play the Ball Back. It's not Old man syndrome at your age. It must be Lazy Pivot Syndrome. Or. Your Elbow is getting stuck at your right side, you're losing hand acceleration (which also by the way, allows your hands to get to the ball).

Geez...

Daryl 11-11-2012 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 94141)


OMG. Playing the Ball in the Middle of your stance is so wrong in so many ways.

DRILL to correct this problem:

The Right Shoulder is part of the Pivot and is also part of the Power Package. It's the Slowest Moving Part of the Power Package. Hand Acceleration (delivery path) allows the Hands to move a little farther away from the Right Shoulder and Clubhead Acceleration (pulley) allows the hands to Move all of the way in-line with the Left Shoulder (very far from the right shoulder).
  1. Tee a Ball 6 inches forward of your Left Foot.
  2. Put your feet together (moves low-point forward)
  3. Swing
  4. Hit the Ball
  5. Learn to move that right elbow, then hands to move the Clubhead.
  6. Your Hands at Impact, should also be 6 inches forward of the Left Foot.

If your body is in the way.........if you eat too much........put your feet together, then place your right foot 6 inches back of your left foot. This is called (new terminology) "Clearing the Waist". :)


At First,Practice this with the "Bucket".


Your Goal is to hit that Ball Straight-Straight.

Daryl 11-11-2012 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 94143)
Great views of Luke Donald face on!

Sand, Driver, Irons with his narrative!

http://youtu.be/bQaLIyvxZ64

Great view of Luke getting his Right Elbow stuck as always.

Ya know, he doesn't change his stance width for any club in this VID. Makes me cringe. So, the shorter the club, the more he plays the ball back in his stance (Right Forearm Angle of Approach). That's an Amateur compensation.

innercityteacher 11-11-2012 09:25 PM

Very observant and logical!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94146)
OMG. Playing the Ball in the Middle of your stance is so wrong in so many ways.

DRILL to correct this problem:

The Right Shoulder is part of the Pivot and is also part of the Power Package. It's the Slowest Moving Part of the Power Package. Hand Acceleration (delivery path) allows the Hands to move a little farther away from the Right Shoulder and Clubhead Acceleration (pulley) allows the hands to Move all of the way in-line with the Left Shoulder (very far from the right shoulder).
  1. Tee a Ball 6 inches forward of your Left Foot.
  2. Put your feet together (moves low-point forward)
  3. Swing
  4. Hit the Ball
  5. Learn to move that right elbow, then hands to move the Clubhead.
  6. Your Hands at Impact, should also be 6 inches forward of the Left Foot.

If your body is in the way.........if you eat too much........put your feet together, then place your right foot 6 inches back of your left foot. This is called (new terminology) "Clearing the Waist". :)


At First,Practice this with the "Bucket".


Your Goal is to hit that Ball Straight-Straight.

About a week ago Daryl, I narrowed my stance and was blasting the ball high and with a very high baby draw. I have been changing so many thing though I didn't really understand why and wanted to practice the correct stance as we discussed.

Thanks for the heads and hands up and accelerating buddy!

Can I ask a non-Bears related question? When you say: "Clubhead Acceleration (pulley) allows the hands to Move all of the way in-line with the Left Shoulder (very far from the right shoulder)." does that mean that with my hands at full Extensor Action and left arm level to the ground, that that parallel bump gets my hands moving at maximum speed?

Whoaaa! I just tried it with the impact bag and that is a very dramatic forward swivel!

ICT

innercityteacher 11-11-2012 09:50 PM

Ok, some G.O.L.F. reasoning to understand golf
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94146)
OMG. Playing the Ball in the Middle of your stance is so wrong in so many ways.

DRILL to correct this problem:

The Right Shoulder is part of the Pivot and is also part of the Power Package. It's the Slowest Moving Part of the Power Package. Hand Acceleration (delivery path) allows the Hands to move a little farther away from the Right Shoulder and Clubhead Acceleration (pulley) allows the hands to Move all of the way in-line with the Left Shoulder (very far from the right shoulder).
  1. Tee a Ball 6 inches forward of your Left Foot. (Because the left shoulder is low-point)
  2. Put your feet together (moves low-point forward)(See above.)
  3. Swing
  4. Hit the Ball
  5. Learn to move that right elbow, then hands to move the Clubhead. (Back to studying film!)
  6. Your Hands at Impact, should also be 6 inches forward of the Left Foot.
(So the irons and everything must be 6 inches in front of the elbow?)

If your body is in the way.........if you eat too much........put your feet together, then place your right foot 6 inches back of your left foot. This is called (new terminology) "Clearing the Waist". :) (Love the new term!)


At First,Practice this with the "Bucket".


Your Goal is to hit that Ball Straight-Straight.

(Amen)

Wow, that sense of a whip is incredible!

Thanks Daryl!

ICT

innercityteacher 11-11-2012 10:33 PM

What about this drill? Right elbow seems to lead down plane.

http://youtu.be/WIn1ymOA3CM

Obvious here, right elbow has to lead for basic motion chip and every shot!

http://youtu.be/Qanj07ptUcw

ICT

Daryl 11-12-2012 08:45 AM

Elbow
Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 94150)
What about this drill? Right elbow seems to lead down plane.

http://youtu.be/WIn1ymOA3CM

Obvious here, right elbow has to lead for basic motion chip and every shot!

http://youtu.be/Qanj07ptUcw

ICT

Both videos, slow mo, identify Shoulder Acceleration. I couldn't find but a scant amount of Hand Acceleration, but I did witness a Large Pulley (Clubhead Acceleration) supported by the Pivot Rotation TO INCREASE (or at least maintain) HAND SPEED.

These are not good examples of the Downstroke Acceleration Sequence. Without a generous amount of "Hand Speed" (Straight Line Delivery Path) Lag will be lost and cannot be recovered.

Pete Cowen: I don't know of him. He seems to have some TGM knowledge, maybe a coincidence. He obviously cannot define or quantify the Right Forearm Angle of Approach which is what this entire video is about. But HE BELIEVES IN IT. He's RIGHT. But, he sticks his Elbow to his side, not because of choice (because he states that he wants to keep it moving forward), but lack of knowledge. Most Pro's play this way. Just goes to show that talent, hard work, and effort, one can overpower Alignments to some degree.

If you look at how many players make it to the PGA Tour that last only a few Tournaments or 1,2 or 3 years. It's sad. I've read that the average is 3 years.

Watch toward the end of the video, he cannot, does not understand, refuses, to get his Elbow Unstuck and he'll bend his left wrist when the bucket gets pushed to low-point. It's partly because He COCKS his RIGHT WRIST....SO...he leaves his Elbow at His Side to compensate for Uncocking the right wrist. If you MAINTAIN A LEVEL RIGHT WRIST - You will allow/manage your Elbow to move FORWARD. Put on a "CAST" and FREEZE the Right Wrist and you will OWN your Golf Swing.

That he mentions "Right Shoulder Support" without explaining that it's both Alignment and Force that supports the Alignment of the Pulley..... The need for continuing education.........

I'm no longer surprised that a Teacher who lacks basic Alignment Knowledge can survive in competitive teaching. I'm sure he helps a lot of players but I bet there's a lot of needless suffering. He does a poor job of explaining the underhand pitch.

GM: It's a shame. He's been teaching that poor guy for almost two years and he still can't play.

Quote:

The Straight Line Path is a simpler procedure than the Angled Line Path. But the latter is very natural movement and has the advantage of the true Elbow Plane through Impact. The former can have a steeper-than-normal Elbow Plane compensated with a reaching-out of the arms and a shifting of the Left Hand Grip that places the Clubshaft in the Cup of the Hand instead of under the heel of the Hand, and the Right Hand Grip adjusted to correspond. The sharpness of the arcs at either end of “Line” Paths determines how much of that “Line” can remain and how much the change from Linear Speed (Downstroke) to Angular Speed (Release) will increase Clubhead Speed without changing Hand Speed – the “Endless Belt Effect” of #3 Accumulator per 2-K#6 and 6-B-3-B.
Quote:

10-6-A ELBOW Where the Right Elbow touches the waist is the reference point used for this Plane Angle. It is the “flattest” normal Plane that will still allow the Right Forearm to be On Plane during Impact. This should produce a very flat Angle of Attack (2-B) with reduced Backspin and should be avoided for Short Shots unless it is also part of your Full Stroke Pattern. The Elbow Plane allows maximum #3 Accumulator requiring earlier Release per 6-N-0. This procedure is executed by the Right Forearm per 7-3 and 10-6-B and Elbow Location per 6-B-3-0-1.

HungryBear 11-12-2012 09:41 AM

Caution!
 
2 Attachment(s)
Watch for the Bear Teach!!
Even in an avitar!!

LOL

Attachment 2909

Attachment 2910


The Hungry Bear

innercityteacher 11-12-2012 11:18 PM

44/41 but lots of good problems
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94146)
OMG. Playing the Ball in the Middle of your stance is so wrong in so many ways.

DRILL to correct this problem:

The Right Shoulder is part of the Pivot and is also part of the Power Package. It's the Slowest Moving Part of the Power Package. Hand Acceleration (delivery path) allows the Hands to move a little farther away from the Right Shoulder and Clubhead Acceleration (pulley) allows the hands to Move all of the way in-line with the Left Shoulder (very far from the right shoulder).
  1. Tee a Ball 6 inches forward of your Left Foot.
  2. Put your feet together (moves low-point forward)
  3. Swing
  4. Hit the Ball
  5. Learn to move that right elbow, then hands to move the Clubhead.
  6. Your Hands at Impact, should also be 6 inches forward of the Left Foot.

If your body is in the way.........if you eat too much........put your feet together, then place your right foot 6 inches back of your left foot. This is called (new terminology) "Clearing the Waist". :)


At First,Practice this with the "Bucket".


Your Goal is to hit that Ball Straight-Straight.

I actually hit the ball through several fairways! Great drill Daryl I hit a lot of balls dead online. I kept looking for a fade or a draw but the ball just stayed straight.

Windy day and I left a few irons short, usually an iron or so. I need to experiment more with ball position. The easier I swung the driver and the higher I teed it, the further it seemed to go-straight. I experimented looking for a draw and just hit it straight. The wind would knock the ball down but the ball stayed on line.

I converted 1/3 birdie chances and really squandered a bunch of chips on the front turning 2 shots into 3. :( Had a realistic chance at 40 on the front but kicked it away in close. Amazing scores for me being off season!

ICT

Daryl 11-13-2012 12:05 AM

You've got to get that chipping down. It will improve every part of your game.

innercityteacher 11-13-2012 01:55 PM

Very funny Bear!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HungryBear (Post 94152)
Watch for the Bear Teach!!
Even in an avitar!!

LOL

Attachment 2909

Attachment 2910


The Hungry Bear

In this case, the bear was waiting for me on the fringe with my chipping! :crybaby:

ICT

innercityteacher 11-13-2012 02:19 PM

The meaning of moving the elbow ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94151)
Elbow

Both videos, slow mo, identify Shoulder Acceleration. I couldn't find but a scant amount of Hand Acceleration, but I did witness a Large Pulley (Clubhead Acceleration) supported by the Pivot Rotation TO INCREASE (or at least maintain) HAND SPEED.

These are not good examples of the Downstroke Acceleration Sequence. Without a generous amount of "Hand Speed" (Straight Line Delivery Path) Lag will be lost and cannot be recovered.

Pete Cowen: I don't know of him. He seems to have some TGM knowledge, maybe a coincidence. He obviously cannot define or quantify the Right Forearm Angle of Approach which is what this entire video is about. But HE BELIEVES IN IT. He's RIGHT. But, he sticks his Elbow to his side, not because of choice (because he states that he wants to keep it moving forward), but lack of knowledge. Most Pro's play this way. Just goes to show that talent, hard work, and effort, one can overpower Alignments to some degree.

If you look at how many players make it to the PGA Tour that last only a few Tournaments or 1,2 or 3 years. It's sad. I've read that the average is 3 years.

Watch toward the end of the video, he cannot, does not understand, refuses, to get his Elbow Unstuck and he'll bend his left wrist when the bucket gets pushed to low-point. It's partly because He COCKS his RIGHT WRIST....SO...he leaves his Elbow at His Side to compensate for Uncocking the right wrist. If you MAINTAIN A LEVEL RIGHT WRIST - You will allow/manage your Elbow to move FORWARD. Put on a "CAST" and FREEZE the Right Wrist and you will OWN your Golf Swing.

That he mentions "Right Shoulder Support" without explaining that it's both Alignment and Force that supports the Alignment of the Pulley..... The need for continuing education.........

I'm no longer surprised that a Teacher who lacks basic Alignment Knowledge can survive in competitive teaching. I'm sure he helps a lot of players but I bet there's a lot of needless suffering. He does a poor job of explaining the underhand pitch.

GM: It's a shame. He's been teaching that poor guy for almost two years and he still can't play.

Daryl, when you say "move the elbow forward" am I to move it around my waist on a circle or sort of on an angle "through" my waist (sort of). I assumed the latter and want to be sure! Unless, there is another possibility?

Thanks!

ICT

innercityteacher 11-13-2012 02:21 PM

I agree!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94155)
You've got to get that chipping down. It will improve every part of your game.

I believe that and will do so! :salut:

ICT

innercityteacher 11-13-2012 09:41 PM

Left palm on plane!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 94160)
I believe that and will do so! :salut:

ICT

Bread crumbs on the trail! Daryl, this is like the drill you explained in some ways.

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=13777&highlight=elbow+movement#po st13777

Quote:

YodasLuke
Lynn Blake Certified Master Instructor

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 1,314
pitch
Originally Posted by Richw
In the picture comparison of Yoda and Hogan in the gallery, note how the right elbow has tucked back into the right side? This no doubt is a result of the proper sequencing, but if one were to work on this move what would you suggest??

I've noticed that in video, my right elbow does not return to my side quite so neatly. My feeling is that I need to work on delivery path and aiming point, but aside from that are there any suggestions?
Be careful about exaggerating the Pitch as shown in 10-3-B. Too many people try to 'tuck the elbow' and get into accumulator lag, where the right arm never straightens. Trust me; I've been there.

I'll give you a little drill to support the proper positioning for the use of a Snap Release. Place your left hand in front of your body and place it palm to plane (as in a start-up swivel). A start-up swivel is preparation for the use of a release swivel. "As it goes up, so it tends to come down."

With your left hand palm to plane, place your right forearm flying wedge under and against the left. When you're palm to palm, notice the position of the right elbow. You are in Pitch. Instead of trying to change the elbow, try to keep your left hand palm to plane longer. In fact, take the 'karate chop' past your line of sight to the ball. It's a maximum trigger delay.

P.S. Don't tell anybody I talked about swinging. I'll be ostracized from the hitters emergency room.
__________________
Yoda knows...and he taught me!

For those less fortunate, Swinging is an option.

innercityteacher 11-13-2012 10:36 PM

More clarity

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5670&page=3&highlight=elbow+movem ent


Quote:

06-15-2008, 10:18 AM

Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,632
Understanding the Swinger's Right Arm Participation -- Real Vs. Feel
Originally Posted by Jeff

Maybe that is why Hogan "wished he had three right hands". He wished that he could get the club to move faster in the late downswing, but practical common-sense probably made him realize that his swing was already optimized for maximum clubhead speed generation., and that any attempt to add extra swing power in the late downswing was not practically possible for a swinger who had a perfected triple barrel 4:2;3 swing.
Great thread; lots to learn here. Thanks to all who are participating.



Jeff, I understand and agree with your premise regarding the Swinger's passive Right Arm participation. But for me, it does not explain Hogan's desire for "three right hands". In fact, the whole notion of 'passive right arm' conflicts with it.

Here's my view:

As do all good players, Hogan sensed tremendous Clubhead Lag Pressure Point Pressure from Release to the end of the Follow-Through ('Through the Ball' per 7-24). He felt this Lag Pressure (Acceleration Rate / 2-M-2 #1) in his #3 Pressure Point (first joint of the Right Hand forefinger) and wanted more. Alas, since Clubhead Inertia can withstand all the Lag Pressure anyone can generate (7-19), there was no 'more' to get. Thus, with only one right hand, Hogan felt deficient.

Further, though Clubhead Lag Pressure only indirectly drives (7-11) the Club through Impact, it is nonetheless a dominant Feel. In fact, creating and maintaining this Lag Pressure (1-L #7) is no less than The Secret of Golf (6-C-2-0 / - A). And this indirect drive at Pressure Point #3 -- Right Hand -- is transmitted via the passive Power Accumulator #1 -- Right Elbow (6-C-2-C / 10-11-0-3).

All of which explains the Swinger's Feel ("describable sensation" per 1-J and 3-B) of the "stiff-wristed Right Forearm Slap" (Major Basic Stroke / 10-3-B) and the mantra of The Golfing Machine:

Sustain the Lag! [3-F-7-B]


__________________
Yoda

innercityteacher 11-13-2012 10:41 PM

And further...

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5670&page=3&highlight=elbow+movem ent


Quote:

Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,632
Sustaining Versus Creating Lag
Originally Posted by Jeff

I presume that when you state "stiff-wristed right forearm slap" that you are not implying an active release of power accumulator #1 (due to an isotonic contraction of the right triceps muscle), but rather a well-sequenced release of power accumulator #4, and then PA #2, synchronously combined with the optimum amount of isometric contraction of the right arm/forearm muscles that allows a golfer to sustain the lag.
Exactly right.

Moreover, I am referring to the Swinger's Feel -- monitored in the Right Forearm and Pressure Point #3 -- of sustaining (not creating) Lag Pressure 'Through the Ball'. This Lag Pressure is the indirect drive of the Clubhead (7-11), and its associated Accumulator #3 Action (Clubhead Overtaking) is the product of the passive Accumulator #1, i.e., the straightening Right Elbow per 7-3, 7-20, 6-B-3-0 and 10-11-0-3.

In my own case, my Right Forearm through Impact feels as if I am pressing the palm of my right hand on the inside of a doorway (with the Pivot and its Right Shoulder leading the action), but the doorway won't move. Presumably, this is the "optimum amount of isometric contraction" to which you refer.
__________________
Yoda

#29
06-15-2008, 02:20 PM

Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,632
Caveat Emptor For Swingers
I strongly suggest that Swingers attempting to monitor the Right Forearm Slap of the Major Basic Stroke (7-3; 10-3-B) first firmly secure the last three fingers of the Left Hand (Pressure Point #2) when taking the Grip. Then, maintain that Pressure throughout the Stroke, especially at the Top during the Left Wrist Loading (accomplished by the Pivot per 7-12, 7-19, 7-20 and 10-19-C).

Otherwise, it is all to easy for any 'Right-Sided' Action to degenerate into Throwaway (6-D-0/1/2/3) with its disastrous consequences.

For a 'through Impact' drill, do the 'doorway' drill mentioned above, only use the back of the Left Hand (and the Flat Left Wrist) against the door jamb's resistance. Feel the Pivot pulling the Left Arm.

Of course, the same thing is happening with the Right Arm: It is being Pulled by the Body, its rotation and the ultimating Centrifugal Force. But, it is easy for the player's Right Hand to mistake this Pull - against the Lag Pressure it generates -- as a Push.



__________________
Yoda


my video recommendation:

http://youtu.be/c3kaU1QxHW8

Daryl 11-14-2012 12:39 AM

Wow. Well.

With a Bent and Level Right Wrist, Impact Fix will visually identify, that unless your right forearm is 3 feet long, it couldn't possibly remain at the Right Side during the Impact Interval unless you:
  1. "Uncock" the Right Wrist
  2. locate the Ball substantially aft of Low-Point
  3. Narrow your Stance
  4. have your Hips aligned Square to the Target at Impact
  5. Any combination of the above

With each the first 4 examples, the distance between the Right Shoulder and Low-Point is being affected. Compensations do work, but, compensations are trade-offs.

File this under "Pivot Controlled Hands".

Etzwane 11-14-2012 05:49 AM

Pete Cowen has a good stable of European Tour players but his swing model always felt strange to me. Now that I've read TGM, I can put a name on it: breaking the flying wedges in the impact zone.

innercityteacher 11-15-2012 01:16 AM

OK Daryl, Lynn, I get the right elbow "pitch" and "punch" locations and the why and how of getting stuck!!!

http://youtu.be/ADypdhFcbSs

http://youtu.be/lbc1bBjza9A

This explains why if I keep my right forearm angle of approach level and extended parallel to the Plane line, I can just let the left wrist vertically uncock with no getting stuck and many other things including RFT magic. Durr, if I can shoot a 76 without knowing this, I can shoot 66 with knowing this! Thanks guys and LBG!

innercityteacher 11-15-2012 11:34 PM

Pushing the Baton
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 94175)
OK Daryl, Lynn, I get the right elbow "pitch" and "punch" locations and the why and how of getting stuck!!!

http://youtu.be/ADypdhFcbSs

http://youtu.be/lbc1bBjza9A

This explains why if I keep my right forearm angle of approach level and extended parallel to the Plane line, I can just let the left wrist vertically uncock with no getting stuck and many other things including RFT magic. Durr, if I can shoot a 76 without knowing this, I can shoot 66 with knowing this! Thanks guys and LBG!

Note to self-Pretend to hold a heavy baton in the bent right wrist so as not to straighten the right wrist and so then to bend only the right elbow so the BRW faces me as long as possible-move the elbow-keep the ball 6 inches in front of the left foot, PIVOT/STEP LEFT AND LOAD PP # 3 THEN PUSH IT/ELBOW/FOREARM STRAIGHT AWAY FROM THE BODY TO THE INNER QUADRANT-PUSH THE LAG DOWN PLANE TO MAINTAIN THE LINE OF COMPRESSION THROUGH THE BALL TO COMPRESS THE BALL AND NULLIFY CLUB DEFLECTION PUSH IT ONCE IT IS LOADED BY THE PIVOT-THE LEFT HAND IS ON TOP OF THE PLANE FLAT TO IT TO THE PALM AND THE RIGHT HAND IS HOLDING THE WHEEL RIM, THE LINE OF COMPRESSION DRAGGING ITS WEIGHT TO PULVERIZE THE BALL WITH THE FINISH SWIVEL.

KEEP THE RIGHT ELBOW IN FRONt OF THE RIGHT HIP THROUGH RFT OR A FULLY STRAIGHTENED RIGHT LEG , PIVOT LOADS PP # 3 AND THE FOREARM SHOOTS IT TO ITS FULL EXTENSION AND POWER TO BOTH ARMS STRAIGHT SNAPPING THE FINISH SWIVEL to power the line of compression!!!

ICT

Daryl 11-16-2012 12:05 AM

If that works, then, ok.:salut:

Daryl 11-16-2012 12:13 AM

I need 26 posts to catch OB Left. Is he on Vacation?


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