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innercityteacher 08-10-2012 12:15 AM
Angle Hinge and the right elbow...


Quote:
Mathew
Inactive User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 833

I don't like his thread because it leads those astray....

Put simply. the angled hinge affects the loading of the right arm where it is a position to HIT at the top due to the influence created by the manditory alignments of the flying wedges. It is always a left arm stroke remember (1-F). The hinge action controls the alignments - it is the right arms job to trace the plane line and let the hinge action (controlling acc no.3)to do its thang.....the left arm is always swinging (1F) and it is always a left arm stroke

Thats why its left hand clubface right hand clubhead....

You cannot be in a position to hit with a horizontal hinge -its just not happen' - You are in a position to drag though

innercityteacher 08-10-2012 12:20 AM
True Hitting and Swinging

Quote:
YodasLuke
Lynn Blake Certified Master Instructor

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 1,314
Re: 10-19-0
Originally Posted by Trigolt
Originally Posted by MizunoJoe
Horizontal Hinge Hitting is for a Hitter who wants to truly draw the ball by hitting the inside of the ball, rather than lining up closed to the target and pull hooking it. Or any Hitter who wants to avoid the fade tendency of Angled Hinging.

Read Homer's own words from 10-19-0 - "Hinge Action does NOT differentiate Hitting and Swinging." Those caps are Homer's not mine. Do you believe that he would have said that were it "nonsensical"?
The next sentence in 10-19-0 states: "All are interchangeable-with reservations." He then warns hitters and swingers about the tendency to natrually revert back to angled and horizontal hinging, respectively. And says:

"Both procedures require skill in Clubface manipulation per 7-2."

So I read this to say, you can horizontal hinge AND hit, but it takes conscious clubface manipulation to do it successfully. The same applies to swingers using angled hinging.
I'm with you Trigolt.
The words that scream at me are 'maipulation' and 'with reservations.'
Homer used the word 'true' to describe 'true hitters' using angled hinging and ' true swingers' using horizontal hinging. Does that make a hitter using horizontal hinging a "false" hitter?
I just thought that I'd add a little TNT to the fire...

innercityteacher 08-10-2012 12:28 AM
Hitting in two stages...

Quote:
Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,431
Help For The Weary
tgmgolfer2k2 wrote:

We've discussed the Swinger's pivot feel of driving their right shoulder either a) into PP4, or b) into the inside quad of ball. This is to instill the correct shoulder motion in the downstroke.

But Yoda has warned that continued and repeated use of a right shoulder "hitting the ball" feel will lead us down the infamous pivot controlled hands avenue.

At some point, we must relinquish control of the swing to our hands. Our hands must first be educated enough to take on this responsibility though. Let's assume our hands are educated. What should the swing now feel like if we're just swinging our hands? Just move them back and around? Feeling like they're in a straight line or a circle?

Much Fog remains on this question, at least for me personally.



Once the Mechanic of Shoulder Turn Thrust (2-M-4 and 6-B-4-A) has beenintegrated into your Stroke Pattern as a Describable Feel, yourattention should return to your Hands. In other words, end your consciousfocus of driving the Right Shoulder at the inside aft quadrant of the Ball.Instead, focus your attention on your No. 3 Pressure Point, and use it todeliver the Lag Pressure the Right Shoulder Turn Thrust has Loaded tothat exact same location. Your Power will remain intact, and your Precisionwill improve dramatically.

Regarding the Feel of Swinging Hands, see the Wheel Rim Procedure of2-J-3-A and 7-23. And Chapters 4 and 5 will remain paramount as long as theGame is played.

innercityteacher 08-10-2012 12:33 AM
Fearless Hitting


Quote:
Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,431
Interpreting the Basic Stroke Patterns
Lonestarbob wrote:

Yoda,

Need some help understanding the basic curriculum in Chapter 12. Since the last email I have started as suggested with the Basic curriculm 12-5-1 and my 1/4" dowel. Am I correct in assuming that 12-5-1 is a "Basic Hitting Procedure"? If so and I choose to "Swing" why would it be nessassary to learn a hitting procedure?

Also Page 7 of preface says "if quick-Swing or if strong-hit". I am not quick, however I am strong but dont like hitting because of a dominate right side and fear of throwaway and the fact that I have great rhythm, is this ok

The Fog is lifting



The 12-5-1/2/3 Patterns can be interpreted for either Swinging or Hitting. Theoptions are in the 'Reference No.'

Don't avoid Hitting because of Throwaway concerns. Learn to Load the Hitter'sLag and to keep your Right Wrist Bent as you straighten your Right Arm toDrive the Lag to the Both Arms Straight Position. It's the most efficient moveimaginable.

I had written a far more complete answer, but my Computer Tech just came inremotely to do a little late night fix-up and logged me out, wiping out about30 minutes of work in the process. Sorry...for both of us.

Maybe later.

__________________
Yoda

innercityteacher 08-10-2012 12:53 AM
Right shoulder lowered through Impact Fix AND KEEP IT THERE!


Quote:

Yoda: I have been watching a lot of footage of Traveno after reading this post. I have noticed that at impact he has a very very low trail shoulder relative to other top players. This must mean that the trail arm is also more bent at impact and there would also be more right wrist bend at the same point. Also the super low trail shoulder would lend it self to a more pitch trail elbow at impact as the trail shoulder is closer to the target. The low trail shoulder must also have an effect on the vectors of the trail arm extensor action also. Both as the point of resistance for the right arm extensor action is lower so I would think the force would be more down and THROUGH than down and as the arm is more bent there is more extensor action to put on the ball .

Is the super low trail shoulder at impact the reason that Trevino " went all the way down" and was so good through the ball? What are your thoughts on the points I raise? Thanks.




Yes, the Trevino Right Shoulder Motion through Impact is an extremelyimportant study. Per 7-13, the Right Shoulder must not only stay 'back,'but also down -- down On Plane. Otherwise, you will 'run out of Right Arm'through Impact. In other words, the Right Arm will act as a 'chain' on yourLeft and it simply cannot go through. And so no matter how much you know aboutthe Flat Left Wrist, it cannot be maintained under this circumstance, andso...it Bends! And the Shot -- and perhaps the match -- is lost.

The place to program this move is at Impact Fix (8-2 and 7-8 ). Bypre-positioning your Right Shoulder 'down On Plane,' say almost directlyopposite the Ball -- probably much lower than your presently feel -- youwill be able to extend through the Ball much further until you reach the BothArms Straight Position at the end of the Follow-Through (8-11). When youreturn to Adjusted Address from this position you will notice that you have a'lot of right arm' -- it is quite bent, even with applied extensor action --and that means that as your Right Shoulder turns through the Ball in this muchfarther way -- "chasing it" as Nick Price likes to say -- then theLeft Arm with its Flat Left Wrist can fly through Impact unimpeded by the'chain' of the Straightened Right Arm caused by the too high RightShoulder.

The reverse of this Impact Fix position would be when you prepare for a 6-inchputt. This Stroke -- as in All Strokes -- must be taken to the Both ArmsStraight Position at the end of the Follow-Through. What to do with such ashort Stroke? You pre-position your Follow-Through for the Both ArmsStraight Position almost immediately following Impact. Now your Right Shoulderwill be much higher than the pre-positioning described above. As a result,you'll have a nice firm 'no Quitting (3-F-7-B) Downstroke to the end of yourFollow-Through and your putt will rattle the hole.

By the way, for those who suffer from 'double hit' putts, this last advice isthe solution.

Stay with this idea, Hue. It is really, really key.

__________________
Yoda

innercityteacher 08-10-2012 01:08 AM
My farthest drives are when my right shoulder drives down through the Impact Fix position. The hip clears and the right shoulder drives down plane with the right elbow never having a chance to get unstuck from Ted's side or Lynn's side through the Paddle Wheel Motion.

http://youtu.be/cI6hwUD1O80

http://youtu.be/HYfOw_7jCTA


Quote:
Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,431
Three Barrel vs. Four Barrel
hue wrote:

YODA
In real terms if you had a 4-barrel player go to a 3-barrel action and master it to the same level of competence. In your opinion, what would be the loss of distance with the driver be if he became a 3-barrel player, if say the guy could crank it out 300 yards with a 4-barrel action? Thanks.



This is a great question and a great post.

The answer is that the Three-Barrel guy would find his ball 290 on thesprinkler heads. The 300-yard Four Barreler likely would be four yards aheadand surrounded by a group of his closest friends...all in the rough..and allstill looking...

P.S. Attention All Four-Barrellers: Do not forget that a lotof what you think you are feeling as Right Arm Thrust...orDrive...or Right Hand through the Ball...or WHATEVER...isnothing more than your very powerful Right Shoulder driving the #4Accumulator through the Right Forearm Flying Wedge throughthe the Ball.

You may feel the 'Power' in your Right Arm or Hand...but the Sourceis your Right Shoulder. Larry Nelson told me this personally fifteenyears ago, and he knows zilch about The Golfing Machine. HeIS a Golfing Machine. Think about it.

innercityteacher 08-11-2012 04:48 PM
Food poisoning Friday night= hurling on the course - driven off course home in bed.

innercityteacher 08-12-2012 06:38 PM
Tightening the alignments with precision for power
 
Food poisoning Friday night= hurling on the course - driven off course home in bed.


I realized the other day that by fully cocking my left wrist, I was actually added extensor action in a heavier dose before thrusting it down. At different times in my notes over the years, extensor action has helped me get to a breakthrough. Time to study it again.


Quote:
Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,436
The Feel Of Extensor Action
Originally Posted by dthobbs

In the video done with one of your students, just prior to the start of the swing you check your extensor action. What is the feel you are trying to get at this point before the swing begins?
Hi dt, and welcome to our site.

You've asked a good question, because Extensor Action is indeed the last thing I Feel before Start Up. Over time, it actually has become my Start Up Trigger. What I Feel is the Push of the heel of my Right Hand against my Left Hand thumb. This stretches -- but, per 6-B-1-D -- does not move the Left Arm. I then take that Stretched Feel to the Top, maintain it through the Start Down and then Drive it though the Ball to the Finish of the Stroke.

After years of training in the 24 Components, the Three Zones and the precision alignments of the Mechanical Checklist of 12-3-0, this is the essence of my Action:

1. I apply Extensor Action at Address.

2. I take it to the Top.

3. I Drive it through the Ball.

Simple as that!

Extensor Action is a vital concept, and I will soon put up a video that will show you how to learn and apply it. It is yet another cornerstone of TGM

JerryG 08-12-2012 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93440)
Food poisoning Friday night= hurling on the course - driven off course home in bed.


I realized the other day that by fully cocking my left wrist, I was actually added extensor action in a heavier dose before thrusting it down. At different times in my notes over the years, extensor action has helped me get to a breakthrough. Time to study it again.
Spalding and I were just talking yesterday about EA. I'm thinking a whole day's clinic could be done strictly on EA, now that I think about it a bit.

innercityteacher 08-12-2012 07:49 PM
Research
 
More to learn from: http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=802&highlight=extensor+action#pos t802

Quote:
Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,440
A Leg Up
Originally Posted by EdZ

Lynn - how do you feel about drills hitting off your knees? It sounds like your views on the lower body are to minimize as much movement as possible. Does that restricted lower body motion make it harder to feel the 'pivot train' move the 'whip' through the body? Essentially starting the 'whip' motion higher up the chain?
I've never done any drills hitting from the Knees. Or from a chair, for that matter. I've seen both done -- they are quite the rage with a certain highly visible Golf Digest Instructor -- and I suppose they could help some people. But from a practical standpoint, I would say they are for demonstration (as 'proof positive' of the Power Package Concept) and for effect.

As for me, I'll stick with using the full Leg. Both of them. That's what we have to deal with anyway. Might as well learn to use'em.

Regarding my favoring a "restricted Lower Body," I do restrict my Feet and my Knees (per 10-17-C and 10-16-C). I do not restrict my Right Hip (or my Right Shoulder). These move per 10-13-D, 10-14-A and 10-15-B.

Finally, I don't give a second thought to my Left Hip and Shoulder. They will conform to my Right side and Extensor Action.

As they should.
__________________
Yoda

innercityteacher 08-12-2012 09:37 PM
More on EA in the Alignments

Quote:
Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,440
Extensor Action And Adjusted Address
Originally Posted by YodasLuke
In 12-3 you'll see that Homer listed extensor action in almost every part of the page. As a hitter, I skip adjusted address by starting at impact fix. Extensor action is what places pressure against the #1 pressure point. The only time that I don't keep pressure against the penny is in the finish. The flying wedges are still assembled, but the pressure isn't the same.

Yoda told me that in 12-3, extensor action could have been added in the adjusted address position, which would support ALWAYS keeping pressure on the penny.(until finish)

[Bold by Yoda.]
Luke is right.

Extensor Action -- stretching the Left Arm via the Heel of the Right Hand against the Left Hand thumb -- is indeed present in Adjusted Address (8-3). However, the reason the Mechanical Checklist (12-3) does not stress Extensor Action in that Section (of the Stroke) is that such Action ultimately will Flatten the Swinger's Bent Left Wrist. In which case, with the Left Wrist no longer Bent, Adjusted Address (10-9-A) will have become an Impact Address (10-9-B).

And you cannot be in both at the same time.

So, there you go:

Easy on the Extensor Action in Adjusted Address, boys. But 'let'er rip' in Start Up, because that Bent Left Wrist has got to get Flat...

No later than the Start Down!
__________________
Yoda


Quote:
densikat
Junior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by nicklin
FANTASTIC-a question.Can there be any pulling with the left hand/arm through IMPACT while driving with the right arm?if so does this help flatten the left wrist?this is for a hitters action.
Nope its either pulling or pushing. Pushing against a pulling left arm would jeopardise your precision alignments


Quote:
Martee
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lenoir, NC
Posts: 572
Originally Posted by YodasLuke
"Holding on" will keep you from applying Maximum #1 pressure. That's the way that I thought of clubhead lag for years. In fact, that's what I was taught.
You can quote me on this:

"LAG PRESSURE IS CREATED, NOT SOMETING THAT YOU TRY TO KEEP"

You really have to learn to DRIVE the #1 pressure point. I've given this advice a number of times, but it really works for most:
Place a penny in between the #1 pressure point and the left thumb. Try to keep the pressure applied against the penny during the whole swing(hit). Make the #1 the direct drive and allow the #3 to recieve the indirect pressure. MANY try to make #3 the direct drive, and in the end, flatten the right wrist.
I wish someone would have told me that years ago. I used to try to feel #3 and try and drive it. Results were terrible. I gave up on hitting and stayed with swinging which when recently viewed it appeared a mixed mess.

Actually I don't believe I ever really felt #3 correctly till Yoda had me do some drills. Once felt, Once learn, I definitely focus on #1 when setting up to do a hit.

That penny drill should do the trick, simple but really effective.

Damn you guys are good....
__________________
Good Golfing

On my longest drives, between 280 and 310 yards, I really tried to drive my roll my right shoulder and elbow as far to both arms straight as physically possible almost turning myself completely around! I thought that the feeling I was looking for was driving my right arm as far forward as possible but instead I now realize, I hope, that the extensor action down on the left thumb maintains the drive through the ball, started by the rolling right shoulder and elbow completely compressing it and causing the added power and precision. As always, I will report on this insight being applied in a round of golf!

ICT



Other confirmations of Swinging and Hitting proper techniques to me:

Quote:
YodasLuke
Lynn Blake Certified Master Instructor

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 1,314
Pulling and pushing
Originally Posted by MizunoJoe
"Pulling welds the left arm to the chest, and pushing pushes the left arm off the chest."

You are talking about two different times here. When Hitting, the Left Arm should also be welded to the chest at the point in the Swing that the Left Arm is welded to the chest. Otherwise you've started pushing too soon. The two strokes are supposedly geometrically equivalent.
I was assuming he was talking about downstroke, release, and impact, as the swinger maintains #4 in the downstroke. The 4 barrell hitter starts with #4, but the right shoulder becomes a platform in the downstroke from which the right elbow can explode, thus exhausting the pressure in #4.

Additionally, geometric equivalents they are, physical equivalents they are not.
__________________
Yoda knows...and he taught me!

For those less fortunate, Swinging is an option.

#20
03-08-2005, 10:30 PM

12 piece bucket
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Thomasville, NC
Posts: 4,377
Re: Pulling and pushing at the same time?
Originally Posted by YodasLuke
Originally Posted by nicklin
FANTASTIC-a question.Can there be any pulling with the left hand/arm through IMPACT while driving with the right arm?if so does this help flatten the left wrist?this is for a hitters action.
Pulling welds the left arm to the chest, and pushing pushes the left arm off the chest. You can't have both happening at the same time.
Validation from Lee Buck's out of print instruction book Groove Your Golf Swing My Way:

LET YOUR LEFT ARM LEAVE YOUR SIDE

To keep your clubhead moving down your flight path a little longer past impact, you must let your left arm leave your left side as you swing through the ball. When this happens correctly you'll feel your right shoulder working under instead of around. The extent that the clubhead can stay on the flight path . . . even a fraction of an inch more extension of on-path movement will improve your chances for starting your shots in the direction you intend.

Straight from some circles the best dag-gone ball strike to walk the planet.

Bucket
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand

Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand

innercityteacher 08-13-2012 06:13 PM
Keep your friends close and your flying wedges and your right elbow even closer :sunny: ( attached to your right hip when chipping and in bunkers)! :BangHead:


I was on 11 greens in regulation or fringes today and necked 8 shots! :crybaby:

I was in 3 bunkers and took 6 shots to get out. :crybaby:

I had 7 pars and 6 bogies and on the other 5 holes I was 10 over! :sad2: &B :iamwithst ](*,) I shot an 88!

I got lucky winning a closest to the pin on a long par 3 where I was 10 feet from the hole making me + $5 for the day, went home got out the shag bag, formed my wedges, anchored my right elbow and dragged my mop. I also closed my wedges a bit!

Any other suggestions are welcome! My tee game was rock solid as were most of my second shots. Formed my wedges, covered my club head path (6 oclock on the ball was my choice, varied open or closed face) and rolled my back shoulder straight down!! Little draw or fade as chosen and about 240 -250 all day carry.


ICT

innercityteacher 08-14-2012 09:23 AM
Notes to self like always....let your left arm leave and make A FULL EXTENSION TO BOTH ARMS STRAIGHT!!! I was so delighted with the simplicity of covering and rolling on the base line plane that I knew I could shoot at the green all day. I had other problems of course but that is being addressed.

Etzwane 08-14-2012 11:12 AM
I think that what a lot of amateurs are missing is a real procedure to put everything in place for the shot. Like a mechanical checklist to train in practice session, get the feel of a correct setup and then check for the correct feel at address on the course. Go explicitely through the list if something feels wrong. That would save me quite a few shots I think. Then a key for the swing, like you "both arms straight". I also like golfgnome's "Basic Motion above the ball" waggles in one of the videos.


Swinging with Horizontal Hinge now or still Angled ?

innercityteacher 08-16-2012 12:05 AM
Angle Hinge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etzwane (Post 93458)
I think that what a lot of amateurs are missing is a real procedure to put everything in place for the shot. Like a mechanical checklist to train in practice session, get the feel of a correct setup and then check for the correct feel at address on the course. Go explicitely through the list if something feels wrong. That would save me quite a few shots I think. Then a key for the swing, like you "both arms straight". I also like golfgnome's "Basic Motion above the ball" waggles in one of the videos.


Swinging with Horizontal Hinge now or still Angled ?
I preview the Impact of the Angle Hinge for each full shot over the top. It is very comforting knowing the mechanics are right and had a good chipping/pitching session today with my wedges formed and right elbow anchored to my side.

What checks do you usually use?

ICT

Etzwane 08-16-2012 02:36 AM
Remember I'm working all by myself, with the book, videos and posts from here, so there's a lot I do wrong probably. That's going to change hopefuly as I've scheduled 3 half days with an AI next week. I'm Hitting from Impact Fix.

I have a procedure to take the grip and form the wedges by taking the right hand grip with the club horizontal in front of me. Then in the practice stroke I focus on maintaining the forearm perpendicaular to the plane at Start Up (I tend to roll the club inside) and around impact, so rehearse Hinging. At Impact Fix, I try to align the right forearm to a point on the base of the plane (kind of an imprecise Angle of Approach / Aimpoint Fix as I haven't figured out exactly what it should look like).

I noticed in practice session that reheasing the Hinge to Follow Through often lead to a better stroke so I was thinking of imprementing that as waggle over the ball like golfgnome.

innercityteacher 08-16-2012 04:03 PM
Lynn's videos with Jeff and Ted
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etzwane (Post 93477)
Remember I'm working all by myself, with the book, videos and posts from here, so there's a lot I do wrong probably. That's going to change hopefuly as I've scheduled 3 half days with an AI next week. I'm Hitting from Impact Fix.

I have a procedure to take the grip and form the wedges by taking the right hand grip with the club horizontal in front of me. Then in the practice stroke I focus on maintaining the forearm perpendicaular to the plane at Start Up (I tend to roll the club inside) and around impact, so rehearse Hinging. At Impact Fix, I try to align the right forearm to a point on the base of the plane (kind of an imprecise Angle of Approach / Aimpoint Fix as I haven't figured out exactly what it should look like).

I noticed in practice session that reheasing the Hinge to Follow Through often lead to a better stroke so I was thinking of imprementing that as waggle over the ball like golfgnome.

Etzwane, do you know these 5 "Address Videos?" They are like $30 or so and downloadable from this site and very helpful.

One of the things Lynn stressed when I was with him was aiming sticks (little skinny brightly colored plastic sticks) and he set those out to cover the Baseline of the Plane and stance line. They helped me unlearn lots of bad habits and to this day I have 2 bright orange ones that I use every time on the course when on the range or putting. Sometimes, if I an having trouble, I simply imagine the bright orange lines are forming a line or a column I can shoot into or putt into and just ignore everything else.


From Impact Fix I am very careful not to roll my flat left wrist though the weight of the club head seems to make it want to. The Angle Hinge for Hitting is a very short backward movement for me; it feels absurdly short but I can really drive that ball and keep it in play off the tee, and shoot it to the middle of the greens on my next shot. Sometimes, it feels like I barely get my RFT or covering the baseline of the plane to chest high! Then I hip bump and drive my right elbow and the ball really takes off and is controllable. Sometimes, I imagine I am rolling my right elbow on my side and under a shelf created by my EA taught left arm. Remember, You can and probably should close the club face a bit on longer irons, hybrids, woods and driver. Experiment and wail away on that ball! :golf:

Another thought or two? Get real good with your chipping, pitches and bunker play. Your stroke or pattern, whichever you use, will quickly get you near the green or in the bunkers and if you can get up and down you will feel like Godzilla, in a good way! Lynn has some videos and really helped me in person. And a guy named Shawn Clement on You Tube has some very descriptive bunker videos. He has a lot of videos but nothing I have seen surpasses Lynn's personal, written and video instructions.

Keep us updated on what you learn and what seems effective and why, ok?

ICT



Big things small swings! :)

innercityteacher 08-16-2012 04:42 PM
From the Shawn Clement Bunker video....

Open the club face 30 degrees or to 1 o'clock and concentrate on shooting the sand with your shot to gauge the length and direction of the shot. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THE BALL, JUST SHOOT THE SAND AND THE BALL WILL GO THERE!

Boy I hope that works!

ICT

Etzwane 08-17-2012 02:51 AM
Thanks for sharing ! I have sticks to make the practice station I saw in a video with John Riegger but for some reason I have not been using them in the last few month. I'll put them back in the bag!

Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93480)
Etzwane, do you know these 5 "Address Videos?" They are like $30 or so and downloadable from this site and very helpful.
I've seen these mentioned, are they with Lynn and Ted ? I never could find them and assumed they were pulled from the site. I have Alignment Golf and the video with Brian Gay.

innercityteacher 08-17-2012 11:26 PM
Things to try... FROM IMPACT FIX OR ADJUSTED ADDRESS... TO KEEP MY ALIGNMENTS PURE AFTER SHOOTING A MIDDLING 86!

RFT cocks the left wrist on plane...HANDS STAY STILL BELOW SHOULDER ON PLANE---Right elbow drives and un-cocks the left wrist. clarifying "quiet knees, quiet feet, extensor action..."

OR


RFT cocks the left wrist on plane...HANDS STAY STILL BELOW SHOULDER ON PLANE and you simply step left to swing and use the Horizontal Hinge by preparing to keep your left elbow following the the step left.


DO YOU SEE IT? ARE YOU PREPARED TO UN-COCK THE LEFT WRIST????

http://youtu.be/vVx6DPCIhd8

http://youtu.be/vVws0CQqTDc

http://youtu.be/vVws0CQqTDc

http://youtu.be/HYfOw_7jCTA

http://youtu.be/sA9Fz28Zu2M


IN ANY CASE KEEP THE HANDS STILL ON PLANE AT OR BELOW THE LEFT SHOULDER SEE THE BASE LINE OF THE PLANE AND UNCOCK ON IT THEN ROLL EITHER THROUGH CENTRIFUGAL FORCE OR THE DRIVING RIGHT ELBOW!!!

innercityteacher 08-18-2012 10:47 PM
Some hard truths...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93500)
Things to try... FROM IMPACT FIX OR ADJUSTED ADDRESS... TO KEEP MY ALIGNMENTS PURE AFTER SHOOTING A MIDDLING 86!

RFT cocks the left wrist on plane...HANDS STAY STILL BELOW SHOULDER ON PLANE---Right elbow drives and un-cocks the left wrist. clarifying "quiet knees, quiet feet, extensor action..."

OR


RFT cocks the left wrist on plane...HANDS STAY STILL BELOW SHOULDER ON PLANE and you simply step left to swing and use the Horizontal Hinge by preparing to keep your left elbow following the the step left.


DO YOU SEE IT? ARE YOU PREPARED TO UN-COCK THE LEFT WRIST????

http://youtu.be/vVx6DPCIhd8

http://youtu.be/vVws0CQqTDc

http://youtu.be/vVws0CQqTDc

http://youtu.be/HYfOw_7jCTA

http://youtu.be/sA9Fz28Zu2M


IN ANY CASE KEEP THE HANDS STILL ON PLANE AT OR BELOW THE LEFT SHOULDER SEE THE BASE LINE OF THE PLANE AND UNCOCK ON IT THEN ROLL EITHER THROUGH CENTRIFUGAL FORCE OR THE DRIVING RIGHT ELBOW!!!
Wow :( I have really been off plane for a long time or I am seriously mis-understanding something basic!

RFT to my shoulder and drove down with my right arm from Impact Fix-good power but zero consistency. Sprayed it everywhere :confused1 shot a 48!

Sand technique worked great as did pitches and chips so that was very good and kept me in bogeysville well, mostly :eyes:

So, RFT to the top and stepped left and the Flail worked better- 42 with more power and accuracy.

So I went around again at the course for another 18 and finally just resorted to Impact Fix, RFT, and dropping my elbow with an Angle Hinge. Got tired and really didn't grind on putts so the 82 was ok, and being back in the middle was great. :)

More research needed but I know that un-cocking the vertical left wrist on plane and rolling on plane , hit or swing is right so I'll keep researching, and suggestions are welcome. :read:

ICT:

innercityteacher 08-19-2012 08:35 PM
Insight!

Nice tip on "Extensor Action" from Paul Smith on "ISeekgolf.com" simply make a "thumbs up " action with your left hand! Works brilliantly at the range for Angle hinges and Horizontal hinges.

Paul's on this site! Thanks Paul!

ICT

innercityteacher 08-21-2012 10:28 PM
Reaching out for a Hit!

After 175 balls, fatigued from Swinging with happy feet and knees due to a new diet, and weighing 7 lbs. less, I RFT'd, then reached out my right forearm and thumb (not PP # 3) for the ball with my driver and drove it to the end of the range straight and high some 250 yards away. I then did it 20 times or so with all types of clubs and put a scuffed Titleist into the woods at the end of the range!

I had been thinking I had to drive my back elbow at the ball which does actually work but is sort of funky compared to the smooth Swoosh of "reaching out" your right forearm for the ball!

innercityteacher 08-23-2012 10:40 PM
Swinging with an Angle Hinge is a good thing and really easy.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ipulated+hands


Quote:
Golf As An Art Form
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket

Now the question and matter at hand is this . . . Since the Swinger is solely dependent upon CF for clubhead speed . . .and CF produces Horizontal Hinging naturally . . . then is the Maniplated Hands Swinger compromised as a result?
Is the Manipulated Hands Swing compromised? Not in the least.

Centrifugal Force drives the Clubhead and aligns the Clubshaft. The player aligns the Clubface based on the shot at hand and the Pattern Variations he employs.

"The Mechanics of Golf is the production and manipulation of the Line of Compression." [Italics by Yoda.]

-- Homer Kelley (2-0)

And remember...

The 'manipulation' of the Clubface occurs prior to Start Up. There is no manipulation of the Clubface during the Stroke. So, align the Clubface as necessary when taking the Grip in its 'Fix' alignments, then...

Return the Left Hand to its Flat, Level and Vertical alignment at Impact.

The Clubface will respond accordingly.
__________________
Yoda
#9
09-08-2006, 10:22 PM

1
Quote:
2 piece bucket
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Thomasville, NC
Posts: 4,377
Originally Posted by Yoda

Is the Manipulated Hands Swing compromised? Not in the least.

Centrifugal Force drives the Clubhead and aligns the Clubshaft. The player aligns the Clubface based on the shot at hand and the Pattern Variations he employs.

"The Mechanics of Golf is the production and manipulation of the Line of Compression." [Italics by Yoda.]

-- Homer Kelley (2-0)

And remember...

The 'manipulation' of the Clubface occurs prior to Start Up. There is no manipulation of the Clubface during the Stroke. So, align the Clubface as necessary when taking the Grip in its 'Fix' alignments, then...

Return the Left Hand to its Flat, Level and Vertical alignment at Impact.

The Clubface will respond accordingly.
I shall close the book on this now! Thanks Boss!
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand

Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Quote:
#10
09-08-2006, 10:26 PM

Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,507
Circle Path Delivery
Originally Posted by birdie_man

How does Circle Delivery Path fit in?
Normally, the Circle Delivery Path is the product of the Shiftless Hip Turn. Great for Putting, not so great for Driving!

The Weight Shift (Hip Slide) makes possible a Line Delivery Path, but does not require it. Study 7-14, 10-14-A/C and 10-23-0/E.
__________________
Yoda
Thanks Guys!

innercityteacher 08-23-2012 10:47 PM
More on the Manipulated grip swinger!


http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3358&page=2&highlight=Manipulated +hands





Quote:
12 piece bucket
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Thomasville, NC
Posts: 4,377
Originally Posted by Yoda
Is the Manipulated Hands Swing compromised? Not in the least.

Centrifugal Force drives the Clubhead and aligns the Clubshaft. The player aligns the Clubface based on the shot at hand and the Pattern Variations he employs.

"The Mechanics of Golf is the production and manipulation of the Line of Compression." [Italics by Yoda.]

-- Homer Kelley (2-0)

And remember...

The 'manipulation' of the Clubface occurs prior to Start Up. There is no manipulation of the Clubface during the Stroke. So, align the Clubface as necessary when taking the Grip in its 'Fix' alignments, then...

Return the Left Hand to its Flat, Level and Vertical alignment at Impact.

The Clubface will respond accordingly.
Yes! Yes! Yes! The key to the Manipulated Hands Swinger is the FLAT LEVEL VERTICAL!

The Manipulated Hands Swinger is ONLY manipulating WHERE his FLAT LEVEL VERTICAL LEFT WRIST AT IMPACT OCURRS. In otherwords back in the stance for a Hook or up in the stance for a Fade. The grip of the club is rotated to achieve a square clubface.

I thought the Manipulated Hands Swinger physically DID something with his hands. But he does not . . . He just determines the point in the stance at which he will achieve Impact with his Flat Level and Vertical Left Wrist. And adjusts the clubface as the Hitter does.

For the “True” Hitter, Moving the Ball back (Hook alignment) or forward (Slice alignment) – always with the Clubface aligned to the Target Line per 2-J-1 – gives straightaway initial direction (2-B). Opening the Clubface (Slice Grip) or Closing the Clubface (Hook Grip) at your normal Impact Fix, produces Pushed Slices and Pulled Hooks and so require a compensating Target Line adjustment to make it square to the changed Clubface alignment.
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand

Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Quote:
#15
09-11-2006, 02:11 PM
EdZ
Lynn Blake Certified Instructor

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Qingdao, China
Posts: 1,639
Yep - mark me down as a manipulated hands swinger - but I agree 100% with Leo - it should be manipulated grip swinger.

If you let impact fix and the flying wedges be your guide when you grip the club, you can fully utilize the true 'shot maker' differences in hinge action.
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"

"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"

Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2


Quote:
#16
09-11-2006, 02:24 PM

12 piece bucket
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Thomasville, NC
Posts: 4,377
Originally Posted by EdZ
Yep - mark me down as a manipulated hands swinger - but I agree 100% with Leo - it should be manipulated grip swinger.

If you let impact fix and the flying wedges be your guide when you grip the club, you can fully utilize the true 'shot maker' differences in hinge action.
But does Manipulated Hands Swinger have anything to do with changing Hinge Action? I think it is just about where you have your Left Wrist Flat Level and Vertical in relation to your ball position.
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand

Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Quote:
#17
10-19-2007, 07:41 AM
finster869
Junior Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 29
Great discussion. How does the "aiming point" concept come into play with all of this?
Quote:
#18
10-19-2007, 09:34 AM
Bigwill
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Belleville, MI
Posts: 254
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
But does Manipulated Hands Swinger have anything to do with changing Hinge Action? I think it is just about where you have your Left Wrist Flat Level and Vertical in relation to your ball position.

Since a pure swinger allows CF to align the clubhead and clubface, which would lead to horizontal hinging, then wouldn't a swinger employing Angled or Vertical Hinging be a manipulated hands swinger, by definition? It seems like it to me, but I'm not 100% sure.
Quote:
#19
10-19-2007, 10:41 AM

Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,507
'True Swing' Requirements
Originally Posted by Bigwill

Since a pure swinger allows CF to align the clubhead and clubface, which would lead to horizontal hinging, then wouldn't a swinger employing Angled or Vertical Hinging be a manipulated hands swinger, by definition? It seems like it to me, but I'm not 100% sure.
The true Swinger is limited to one Hinge Action (Horizontal) and one Ball Location (the Straightaway Flight Location unique to each Club from a given Lie). Any other Hinge Action or Ball Location demands Manipulated Hands procedures.

For those two reasons, especially Ball Location, Homer Kelley advised against the True Swing.
__________________

innercityteacher 08-23-2012 11:00 PM
More programming of the computer!

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6612&highlight=inside+quadrant#po st6612


bantamben1
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 124
i think the idea is to always be looking at that inside aft quadrant because if your looking at the back of the ball your more likely to come over the top or have clubhead throwaway. also my two favorite players both swung at the inside aft quadrant of the ball, hogan describes his downswing plane of glass as turning to the right of the target thus he was then swinging at the iAQ. and trevino always talked about pushing it to the right on his downswing. coicindence that these may have been the two best ball strikers ever. going at the inside aft quadrant is my key thought and has helped me to swing easy and hit big because of less clubhead throwaway.

innercityteacher 08-23-2012 11:06 PM
What I needed, a good "butt" ressing of my concepts (careful out there kids)!

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6030&highlight=inside+quadrant#po st6030



[quote]#8
04-21-2005, 09:36 PM

Quote:
12 piece bucket
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Thomasville, NC
Posts: 4,377
Re: The Model - Mr. Hogan
Originally Posted by Bagger Lance
GG,

It is always a hand controlled pivot. Awareness of the hands is vital to a good golf swing and Homer gave us many ways to educate them.

That said, the hands will have a heck of time staying on plane if the pivot is not trained correctly. Fortunately it is not hard to understand the role of the pivot outside of accomodating the motion of the hands. There is really just one major function; weight shift.

The proper weight shift makes the start down automatic. For example, as the hands and club reach the "end" of the backstroke the weight is shifted laterally targetward by movement of the lower body, namely the hips. The hip bump is just a couple of inches targetward (assuming you haven't swayed). This does several good things. It "clears" the hips so there isn't any roundhousing, it fully loads most of the power accumulators, it provides axis tilt, and gets the hands in their on-plane downstroke alignments. Once the hands and right shoulder are put on plane by the weight shift, all thats left is taking the hands and right shoulder down and out. Some golfers like to drop the hands to a flatter plane at that point, but it's an option. Aim the butt of the club at the inside quadrant of the ball and take them down that line. The pivot will respond to the aiming of the hands by pulling them downplane through hip rotation. The key is that the hand alignments and speed are controlling the body turn. The straightening right arm helps and extensor action provides a constant speed. Mind in the hands. Awareness in the hands. The body responds.

It sounds like a lot, but it's all automatic once the weight is shifted and the hands are released on their assigned downstroke path by the turning hips.

So setting up for the weight shift is really important. I like Hogans model and so does Lynn. He showed me how to set up the pivot last November and it's made a huge difference.

Bagger
Bagger,

Could you please expand on "how to set up the pivot"? Thanks man!

Richard
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand

Quote:
#9
04-21-2005, 10:52 PM

Bagger Lance
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,325
Somebody order Pizza???
Aloha,

Setup is one of my favorite subjects so thanks for asking.

I feel relatively confident discussing it because everytime I visit the swamp, Yoda always comments on it. "I love that setup"...and..."you keep your head very still, we don't need to worry about that".

There are several analogies for the basic feel of it from a muscular readiness standpoint. Think of the following; a 1000M runner lined up at the starting line waiting for the gun, A linebacker preparing to rush the QB. It is a very athletic setup position. A state of readiness.

Anyone who lifts weights will recognize the muscular tension associated with preparing for a squat. Your body can be relatively relaxed with weight on your back, but the spine is perfectly straight to handle the weight, the kness are slightly bent, the weight is balanced across the feet, and the quads are in a state of readiness to accept the load. Ted has told me that after a day long range session, his left quad burns and can be sore the next day. I'm not suggesting you need to have a large amount of tension in the legs, just a state of readiness. My leg tension varies with the shot at hand and I've found a certain amount of muscular stability in the legs allows the rest of my body to relax. It's the platform to swing from.

In every case, you are set up "decidedly targetward" or as Yoda would say, "decidedly leftward". The weight isn't favored on the left side, it is balanced but the muscular readiness is targetward. My initial impression of it when I first started using it was that I couldn't differentiate the weight ratio left or right, but it felt like I was pressing the earth down with my left foot. From a muscular tension standpoint, my left quadricepts are much more activivated than the right. The right side presses into the left. But the weight is balanced. From there, I'm ready to take it back.

It's not stiff, but it's not loose either. As the body turns on the backswing, the left knee moves to accomodate the motion and the right leg can straighten slightly if you wish. At startdown, the hip bumps targetward, the left knee moves to accomodate the weight transfer. The weight is shifted into the left leg with the hip bump. The left quad takes a nice share of the load as you drive the left foot into the ground

Oh, one more impression. You feel like you can really rip the ball as you look down on it, and you will.

Aloha,

innercityteacher 08-24-2012 08:31 PM
Manipulated Hands Swinging for fun and profit!
 
[quote=innercityteacher;93633]What I needed, a good "butt" ressing of my concepts (careful out there kids)!

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6030&highlight=inside+quadrant#po st6030



Quote:
#8
04-21-2005, 09:36 PM



Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand

79 with a "forced" triple bogie on a par 3 ! Can I call it Angle hinge Swinging?

:golfcart:

ICT

innercityteacher 08-24-2012 10:59 PM
Boiling it down still further by one of the most gifted golf writes I know!

I DON'T OFTEN HIT! I un-cock my right wrist to swing. I actually just throw my left wrist at the ball and everything else goes along, BUT WHEN I DO HIT I KEEP THAT RIGHT WRIST LEVEL!

But Daryl really is one of the "most interesting men in golf!"

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showt...ht=Angle+Hinge



Daryl
Senior Member

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,208
The difference between Hitting and Swinging eventually boils down to which force Uncocks the Left Wrist. The two forces available are Centrifugal Force and Muscular Effort.

KEY CONCEPTs:

1. Hitting and Swinging differ by which force moves the Secondary Lever (Golfclub).

2. ONLY the Right Arm Can Hit. A Swing are made with the Left Arm or the Right Arm.

One can only Hit if the Right Wrist remains LEVEL through the Release and Impact Intervals. If the Right Wrist is Cocked and subsequently Uncocks during these Intervals, then, no matter how much force is used or whether the Force is Right Triceps or Right Forearm Thrust or Both, the Stroke is a SWING.

With the Right Hand off the Club, look at the Left Wrist Uncocking, and readily see the Clubhead surface Speed Increasing. With the Right Hand and club only, with its Fixed Level Right Wrist, the Right Forearm and Club form a "single unified assembly". It doesn't Uncock. If you use Right Triceps Thrust (Acceleration) to drive this FIXED assembly, it is solely responsible for moving the Clubhead. Then, Uncocking the Left Wrist serves only to accommodate the Straightening of the Right Arm. Centrifugal Force is Avoided by using a Straight Line Thrust (The easiest way to avoid CF is by moving in a straight line) across the line.

So, to be a Hitter, or be considered a Hitter, the Level Right Wrist must remain Fixed. Ask the Golfer if he Cocks his Right Wrist. That's easy enough. That's the Acid test. If his Level Right Wrist Remains fixed, then your guess is as good as mine. If you Cock and Uncock the Right Wrist, you can be a Swinger, Switter (Combo Hitter-Swinger, bad), Flinger (Right Arm Swinger) or Dinger (you guessed it), but not a Hitter.

innercityteacher 08-25-2012 03:46 PM
A lovely chipping method!

Isolate your front hand directly over the ball with a vertical left wrist about 45 degrees to the target line and RFT a little to a lot to see the variety of shots and outcomes of this dependable method.

ICT

innercityteacher 09-02-2012 05:19 PM
Bad Alignments-Back to the basics!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93671)
A lovely chipping method!

Isolate your front hand directly over the ball with a vertical left wrist about 45 degrees to the target line and RFT a little to a lot to see the variety of shots and outcomes of this dependable method.

ICT
Now that the vertical left wrist has saved my short game, time to employ it fully in my tee and iron shots with a lighter, stronger frame having lost 10 + lbs and having more energy! :)

http://youtu.be/Wx_XwLLe23E

My right elbow has dropped due to non-level left wrist! ugh! My grip is wrong and I have still shot 6 rounds in the 70's this summer or 80!

Mid body hands, club under left heel level left wrist. March! Ohhh baby! Where are my clubs!?

Thanks Lynn!

innercityteacher 09-03-2012 10:02 PM
My Trust issues and the Lynn Blake TRUTH!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93797)
Now that the vertical left wrist has saved my short game, time to employ it fully in my tee and iron shots with a lighter, stronger frame having lost 10 + lbs and having more energy! :)

http://youtu.be/Wx_XwLLe23E

My right elbow has dropped due to non-level left wrist! ugh! My grip is wrong and I have still shot 6 rounds in the 70's this summer or 80!

Mid body hands, club under left heel level left wrist. March! Ohhh baby! Where are my clubs!?

Thanks Lynn!
When I met with Lynn almost 18 months ago, I was convinced of the truth of TGM but it takes me time to trust people as it might take time for others in the same fashion. I was also going through a divorce but happily I had spent time with two fine members of these forums (Jerry G. and Kevin Carter) and met two other members briefly the previous summer.

Lynn is the TRUTH as a nice human being and a wonderful teacher, but it was hard for me with my artificial hip, metal rod, and divorce to really focus on all he was telling me. :dontknow:

He changed my grip, got me marching, listened to me spout TGM materials as if I knew when I really did not, and smiled and said "Ok, Patrick."

He hit me with the kitchen sink! :read:

Today, 18 months later, I put it almost all together. I had a sand save and missed one for a bogie. I crushed several drives of 250 yards even in the rain, and I calmly chipped 5 or 6 chip shots close enough to the pin for certain pars and birdies. I am not used to playing a baby draw so the first couple of holes caused me some problems as I was shooting for the middle of greens instead of the right edge. But once I trusted it, the baby draw yielded lots of birdie chances which our newly aerated greens sometimes blocked off.

I also crushed some wedges with the Horizontal Hinge that flew over the green but I am very happy to have that problem. I have thrown away the Angle Hinge for now, until I can figure out how to be a manipulated hands swinger.

Thanks Lynn! Perhaps this Spring I can bother you some more!

ICT

innercityteacher 09-24-2012 01:27 PM
Finish Swivel Magic/10-2-D grip magic!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93803)
When I met with Lynn almost 18 months ago, I was convinced of the truth of TGM but it takes me time to trust people as it might take time for others in the same fashion. I was also going through a divorce but happily I had spent time with two fine members of these forums (Jerry G. and Kevin Carter) and met two other members briefly the previous summer.

Lynn is the TRUTH as a nice human being and a wonderful teacher, but it was hard for me with my artificial hip, metal rod, and divorce to really focus on all he was telling me. :dontknow:

He changed my grip, got me marching, listened to me spout TGM materials as if I knew when I really did not, and smiled and said "Ok, Patrick."

He hit me with the kitchen sink! :read:

Today, 18 months later, I put it almost all together. I had a sand save and missed one for a bogie. I crushed several drives of 250 yards even in the rain, and I calmly chipped 5 or 6 chip shots close enough to the pin for certain pars and birdies. I am not used to playing a baby draw so the first couple of holes caused me some problems as I was shooting for the middle of greens instead of the right edge. But once I trusted it, the baby draw yielded lots of birdie chances which our newly aerated greens sometimes blocked off.

I also crushed some wedges with the Horizontal Hinge that flew over the green but I am very happy to have that problem. I have thrown away the Angle Hinge for now, until I can figure out how to be a manipulated hands swinger.

Thanks Lynn! Perhaps this Spring I can bother you some more!

ICT
10-2-D grip magic! It sure is nice to know when you Pivot
that your strong grip and Finish Swivel, will release the Vertically Un-cocking/cocking left wrist down the plane! When you get the exact ball positions, you can dial in a draw or straight shot or fade with a real nice trajectory. :golf:

Amazing how much Down there is in the forward pivot and how close the club comes to my body in a well-struck ball. :)

Amazing how well my 20 year old Hogan Edges perform with a Finish Swivel anticipated, as well as the rest of my clubs. That INNER QUADRANT MAKES THAT BALL FLY STRAIGHT AND TRUE!

Thanks Lynn, again!

ICT

innercityteacher 09-26-2012 10:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93913)
10-2-D grip magic! It sure is nice to know when you Pivot
that your strong grip and Finish Swivel, will release the Vertically Un-cocking/cocking left wrist down the plane! When you get the exact ball positions, you can dial in a draw or straight shot or fade with a real nice trajectory. :golf:

Amazing how much Down there is in the forward pivot and how close the club comes to my body in a well-struck ball. :)

Amazing how well my 20 year old Hogan Edges perform with a Finish Swivel anticipated, as well as the rest of my clubs. That INNER QUADRANT MAKES THAT BALL FLY STRAIGHT AND TRUE!

Thanks Lynn, again!

ICT
The Plane Truth!!!

Off Plane- 48
On Plane-42-4 birdie chances within 15 feet

Played a round today and forgot about the Plane for 10 holes! Then I started firing my right forearm at the plane line! Woo Hoo!

innercityteacher 09-26-2012 10:55 PM
Plane as the index finger on my hand!
 
The Plane Truth!!!

Off Plane- 48
On Plane-42-4 birdie chances within 15 feet

Played a round today and forgot about the Plane for 10 holes! Then I started firing my right forearm at the plane line! Woo Hoo![/quote]

This is why we waggle on plane!

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=56331&highlight=on+plane#post5633 1


Address. Bobby's address is a three-step routine to set up the inclined plane for clubshaft guidance, the knee and waist bend needed to hold the head still, a palms together grip with the left wrist flat (not bent either way), level (neither cocked or uncocked), and vertical (to the ground, not rotated), and to rehearse all the selected relationships and alignments including a through the ball plane line (base edge of plane), and the waggle to establish clubhead feel against the first joint of the right forefinger. This is not a clubshaft "feel" but the sensing of the longitudinal center of gravity (sweet spot plane of rotation). That pressure point is used like the lens of a flashlight strapped to the right forearm to shine its light along the plane line during takeaway and release. The left hand is not held square to the target line but closes (like a door) for true rhythmic power generation.

Start Down. It is recommended that the hip turn be preceded by a hip slide parallel to the plane line so body power (the coiled left side) then can pull the butt of the clubshaft and the right shoulder toward the plane line before the pivot can turn itself too far inside the plane line and have to stretch unnecessarily to reach the ball. This also disrupts the pivot component release sequence necessary for this swinging procedure of longitudinal acceleration of the clubhead which duplicates the process of pulling an arrow from a quiver which motion is to be maintained until the release swiches ends with adjustable rapidity. The knees passing through the sit down position maintains the left side assignment of turning the body to generate centrifugal force. Power package muscle power (right triceps thrust) can make a miniscule contribution and only with great effort during a swing procedure.


http://youtu.be/vVx6DPCIhd8

http://youtu.be/HYfOw_7jCTA

http://youtu.be/GHXVjFJWGS8

(no matter that he calls this "New Horizons," it has been around a long time and was taught to me by Lynn!)


So simple when you know how!

ICT

innercityteacher 09-27-2012 11:07 PM
How do I move the shoulder down plane while swinging, correctly?

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showt...lane#post30336


Originally Posted by rogerdodger
When driving the right shoulder down plane, what does the right hip do? If the right hip moves out towards the ball, I hit shanks, fat shots and cannot compress the ball at all. Keeping the hip back works well if I drve the right shoulder down plane. Question, does the right hip move towards the ball at all in a proper swinging procedure or does it only turn behind the toe line? Has anyone else thought about this?
ditto for me on the right hip; if it goes out, bad things happen. Besides the shank, the worst is the well-compressed, very long pull shot that is off the planet.

When Ted worked with me on this in April, I had to feel like my hips were frozen on the downswing. Clear the hip going back, then a little lateral slide/bump to start things down, but that's it. The problem isn't gone by any means...it's been a tough one for me, but these few things have helped me the most...

1) tracing

2) pulling the butt-end of the club straight to/through the ball - try it without thinking about or moving your hips...let them be moved instead.

3) feel/sense my right elbow, still bent, brush in front of my right hip on the downswing (clearing the right hip). This one helped me really start to see #2

4) balance - especially paying attention to sensing where my weight is via my feet. If my weight gets at all towards the toes of my right foot on the backswing, I'm dead.

Still, my tendency is to fire my hips through pretty quick. On the latest video I shot, my right hip had moved quite a bit before impact, but if I do those things above, it stays out of the way - more of a "turn behind the toe line" like you mentioned. That, however, is a result of what I'm trying to accomplish w/ that list above vs. a conscious swing thought about my hip(s).
__________________
Ben

innercityteacher 09-28-2012 08:24 PM
Go to patterns!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93926)
How do I move the shoulder down plane while swinging, correctly?

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showt...lane#post30336


Originally Posted by rogerdodger
When driving the right shoulder down plane, what does the right hip do? If the right hip moves out towards the ball, I hit shanks, fat shots and cannot compress the ball at all. Keeping the hip back works well if I drve the right shoulder down plane. Question, does the right hip move towards the ball at all in a proper swinging procedure or does it only turn behind the toe line? Has anyone else thought about this?
ditto for me on the right hip; if it goes out, bad things happen. Besides the shank, the worst is the well-compressed, very long pull shot that is off the planet.

When Ted worked with me on this in April, I had to feel like my hips were frozen on the downswing. Clear the hip going back, then a little lateral slide/bump to start things down, but that's it. The problem isn't gone by any means...it's been a tough one for me, but these few things have helped me the most...

1) tracing

2) pulling the butt-end of the club straight to/through the ball - try it without thinking about or moving your hips...let them be moved instead.

3) feel/sense my right elbow, still bent, brush in front of my right hip on the downswing (clearing the right hip). This one helped me really start to see #2

4) balance - especially paying attention to sensing where my weight is via my feet. If my weight gets at all towards the toes of my right foot on the backswing, I'm dead.

Still, my tendency is to fire my hips through pretty quick. On the latest video I shot, my right hip had moved quite a bit before impact, but if I do those things above, it stays out of the way - more of a "turn behind the toe line" like you mentioned. That, however, is a result of what I'm trying to accomplish w/ that list above vs. a conscious swing thought about my hip(s).
__________________
Ben
Lynn's 10-2- D grip, Mid- body hands, Extensor Action, Drag to the top, Drag the mop down :) 78-79 best scores. Produces dependable draws.

or

Angle Hinge Impact Fix-push left hand to shoulder (flat left wrist, no rolling) or RFT, slight front shoulder reverse, drag one piece paddle wheel with firm bent right wrist through and underneath a stationary head. 76-77 best scores produces dependable fades.

ICT

innercityteacher 09-29-2012 06:06 PM
Precision Aim Points
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93930)
Lynn's 10-2- D grip, Mid- body hands, Extensor Action, Drag to the top, Drag the mop down :) 78-79 best scores. Produces dependable draws.

or

Angle Hinge Impact Fix-push left hand to shoulder (flat left wrist, no rolling) or RFT, slight front shoulder reverse, drag one piece paddle wheel with firm bent right wrist through and underneath a stationary head. 76-77 best scores produces dependable fades.

ICT


http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=56251&highlight=Impact+Fix#post56 251

The Aiming Point
EdStraker wrote:

Yoda,

Should the golfer be looking at the aiming point, or the inside-aft quadrant of the ball when they swing?



Good question.

In The Golfing Machine, the Three Stations are the Address (8-01/2/3), the Top (8-6) and the Finish (8-12) The goal is to be as preparedas possible before Start-Up, as precise as possible through the Topand as smooth and complete as possible through Impact to the properposition at the Finish.

Note that Impact (8-10) does not enjoy the rank of a Station. It simply"gets in the way" of your Delivered Clubhead. And you use theThree Zones (Chapter 9) to train your Machine to operate without interferencefrom either Club or Ball. In Zone #1 (Body / 9-1), for example, youlearn your Pivot motion without the Arms and Club to avoid awkward"hitches." In Zones #2 (Arms / 9-2) and #3 (Hands / 9-3) you learnto make their Motions without a Ball to avoid Throwaway (4-D-1) andSteering(3-F-7-A). So, once you've established your Impact Fix alignments(2-J-1) -- this is where you nail that inside-aft quadrant! -- the Ball becomesirrelevant. It could be there. Or not be there. Practice Stroke (3-F-5-1)or for real (12-5-3).

Once you've determined your Fix alignments, the Aiming Point (6-E-2)replaces the Ball. You now direct the Lag Loading (7-19) of the #3 PressurePoint at the Aiming Point as if it were the Ball. This Aiming Pointcan only be determined by experience (Practice!) only. And you will need tolearn how to direct your Thrust precisely at that point once you've learnedwhere it is.

The way to do that is explained in 6-E-2-1. At the Top, you mentally constructa line from the first joint of your Right Forefinger (#3 Pressure Point /6-C-1-3) to the Aiming Point. This becomes your Delivery Path (10-23-A or10-23-C). Practicing in slow motion -- first without a Club; then with a Clubbut no Ball -- you let a careful Downstroke Pivot (On-Plane Right Shoulder /10-13-D) deliver the Lag Pressure Loading (7-19) strongly down the StraightLine Delivery Path (of the Hands). In real time, the Club is driven stronglydownward, smashing through the Ball, through the Aiming Pointto the Low Point to the Both Arms Straight Position(Follow-Through / 8-11) from which you Swivel into your Finish.

The big idea -- if you haven't noticed! -- is "Down." StraightDown through the Aiming Point. Straight Down to the LowPoint of the Stroke. Only then, per 1-L 13/14/15, does the Club begin theUpward portion of its Orbit, and even then the Thrust continues Down Planeuntil the end of the Follow-Through (8-11).

Homer told me one time that very few golfers actually go all the way down.Almost all reach the Ball and begin their upward Motion before the LowPoint is reached. "Even Tour players," he said.

"They almost all come up, and I'm really kind of surprised when I seethem still take a divot."

I asked him for the name of a player who did go all the way down.

"Trevino," he said with a lowered voice and a growl.

"I like that guy. He hits a wedge, and you've got to help himget the club out of the ground!"

__________________
Yoda



As I understand this, Impact Fix puts the right shoulder on plane, so then the issue is smashing through the Aim Point/Inner Quadrant.

ICT

innercityteacher 09-29-2012 06:19 PM
Right Shoulder down on plane!

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=56257&highlight=Impact+Fix#post56 257

Yoda: I have been watching a lot of footage of Traveno after reading this post. I have noticed that at impact he has a very very low trail shoulder relative to other top players. This must mean that the trail arm is also more bent at impact and there would also be more right wrist bend at the same point. Also the super low trail shoulder would lend it self to a more pitch trail elbow at impact as the trail shoulder is closer to the target. The low trail shoulder must also have an effect on the vectors of the trail arm extensor action also. Both as the point of resistance for the right arm extensor action is lower so I would think the force would be more down and THROUGH than down and as the arm is more bent there is more extensor action to put on the ball .

Is the super low trail shoulder at impact the reason that Trevino " went all the way down" and was so good through the ball? What are your thoughts on the points I raise? Thanks.




Yes, the Trevino Right Shoulder Motion through Impact is an extremelyimportant study. Per 7-13, the Right Shoulder must not only stay 'back,'but also down -- down On Plane. Otherwise, you will 'run out of Right Arm'through Impact. In other words, the Right Arm will act as a 'chain' on yourLeft and it simply cannot go through. And so no matter how much you know aboutthe Flat Left Wrist, it cannot be maintained under this circumstance, andso...it Bends! And the Shot -- and perhaps the match -- is lost.

The place to program this move is at Impact Fix (8-2 and 7-8 ). Bypre-positioning your Right Shoulder 'down On Plane,' say almost directlyopposite the Ball -- probably much lower than your presently feel -- youwill be able to extend through the Ball much further until you reach the BothArms Straight Position at the end of the Follow-Through (8-11). When youreturn to Adjusted Address from this position you will notice that you have a'lot of right arm' -- it is quite bent, even with applied extensor action --and that means that as your Right Shoulder turns through the Ball in this muchfarther way -- "chasing it" as Nick Price likes to say -- then theLeft Arm with its Flat Left Wrist can fly through Impact unimpeded by the'chain' of the Straightened Right Arm caused by the too high RightShoulder.

The reverse of this Impact Fix position would be when you prepare for a 6-inchputt. This Stroke -- as in All Strokes -- must be taken to the Both ArmsStraight Position at the end of the Follow-Through. What to do with such ashort Stroke? You pre-position your Follow-Through for the Both ArmsStraight Position almost immediately following Impact. Now your Right Shoulderwill be much higher than the pre-positioning described above. As a result,you'll have a nice firm 'no Quitting (3-F-7-B) Downstroke to the end of yourFollow-Through and your putt will rattle the hole.

By the way, for those who suffer from 'double hit' putts, this last advice isthe solution.

Stay with this idea, Hue. It is really, really key.

Etzwane 09-30-2012 03:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93930)
Lynn's 10-2- D grip, Mid- body hands, Extensor Action, Drag to the top, Drag the mop down :) 78-79 best scores. Produces dependable draws.

or

Angle Hinge Impact Fix-push left hand to shoulder (flat left wrist, no rolling) or RFT, slight front shoulder reverse, drag one piece paddle wheel with firm bent right wrist through and underneath a stationary head. 76-77 best scores produces dependable fades.

ICT
Which procedure feels like "yours" ? Which one gives the fewest "bad days" ?


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