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Bumpy 07-27-2012 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93143)
hold the right bicep or isometrically flex it tight to your side as you come down. :exclaim:

I don't know why tour players say they "loosen up" when they want to hit the ball far, maybe they flip the club faster?

Anyway, thanks Lynn and fellas!

ICT

This sounds like a forced introduction to the effect of elbow location.

Bumpy

innercityteacher 07-27-2012 05:09 PM
I'll buy that!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpy (Post 93164)
This sounds like a forced introduction to the effect of elbow location.

Bumpy
It sure works well! :)

ICT

innercityteacher 07-28-2012 01:44 AM
Got it, I hope.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpy (Post 93164)
This sounds like a forced introduction to the effect of elbow location.

Bumpy
Simply a bona fide Hit with Pivot carrying my right arm way down, bicep pressure can travel till the last moment before I piston the right arm. Bicep flex keeps elbow to body to brace the thrust. Currently playing East TN mountain golf and getting to every hole with distance. Lots of big drives uphill and down hill. :golf:

The motion feels like a small flywheel, my elbow, being pulled or driven by my pivot than fired smoothly at a sharp angle to Both Arms Straight. :golfcart:

Pivot makes it the hit go boom! LOL!


http://youtu.be/sA9Fz28Zu2M

ICT

Bumpy 07-28-2012 12:08 PM
Is your right arm uncocking your left wrist or supporting CF?

Bumpy

innercityteacher 07-28-2012 08:23 PM
Right arm un-cocks left wrist
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpy (Post 93180)
Is your right arm uncocking your left wrist or supporting CF?

Bumpy
Very simple.

Bumpy 07-29-2012 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93184)
Very simple.
Just confirming you were hitting at the time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93176)
Simply a bona fide Hit with .................Pivot carrying my right arm way down, bicep pressure can travel till the last moment before I piston the right arm. Bicep flex keeps elbow to body to brace the thrust..............

ICT
If your effective with it, it ain't the biceps.

Bumpy

innercityteacher 07-29-2012 06:15 PM
The Bicep tension means...
 
http://www.paulbertholy.com/paulbert..._the_Book.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpy (Post 93188)
Just confirming you were hitting at the time.




If your effective with it, it ain't the biceps.

Bumpy
I am carrying the right arm down with the pivot and keeping the right elbow going down until I fire the piston. I think I am on the beginning of four-barrel hitting since I Pivot strongly before firing my right arm with a bent left wrist. I have been working with the Paul Bertholy exercises and his "magic move" trying to carry the right elbow past the plane line of the ball before firing or releasing. I just think my machine is finally becoming more effective. :happy3:

I also re-learned Lynn's putting and chipping instructions from Runion the last couple days by sticking my elbows on my sides for putts and chips. Shot an 84 from the championship tees at the Brae Course in Fairfield Glades. We started off the back and I was 4 over after the first 9. Got tired and hot on the back 9. I hadn't played any of these course in two years.

The 18-hole "Brae" course at the Heatherhurst Golf Course facility in Crossville, Tennessee features 6,499 yards of golf from the longest tees for a par of 72 . The course rating is 71.2 and it has a slope rating of 126. Designed by Gary Roger Baird, ASGCA/Bobby Greenwood, the Brae golf course opened in 1989. Fairfield Glade Community Club manages this facility, with Jeff Houston as the Golf Professional/General Manager

Read More: Heatherhurst Golf Course | Brae Golf Course http://www.golflink.com/golf-courses...#ixzz223HH48bO

http://www.golflink.com/golf-courses...course=1269456

Shot an 87 at the Dorchester from the tips never playing it before.

http://www.fairfieldglade.cc/getmedi...g-Info-DC.aspx

ORCHESTER GOLF CLUB ~ 931-484-3709 ~ 18 HOLES PAR 72
DDIRECTOR OF GOLF HEAD PROFESSIONAL ASSISTANT PROFESSIONAL COURSE SUPERINTENDENT
TTEES BLUE
WHITE YELLOW RED GREEN
YYARDAGE 6382
5817 4661 4566 3670
MM RATING/SLOPE 70.6/127
68.2/121 63.5/108 62.5/103 60.2/103
WW RATING/SLOPE 74.2/128
67.7/112 67.1/111 62.0/101

And an 85 from the tips of the Crag Golf Course

The 18-hole "Crag Course" at the Heatherhurst Golf Course facility in Crossville, Tennessee features 6,171 yards of golf from the longest tees for a par of 72 . The course rating is 69.6 and it has a slope rating of 120. Designed by Gary Roger Baird, ASGCA, the Crag Course opened in 1989. Fairfield Glade Community Club manages this facility, with Jeff Houston as the Golf Professional/General Manager.

Read More: Heatherhurst Golf Course | Crag Course Golf Course http://www.golflink.com/golf-courses...#ixzz223Jmw1Sq

http://www.golflink.com/golf-courses/course.aspx?course=1269556


Here is the Paul Bertholy drill I am doing and I am working through his book reprinted by Doug Ferreri who seems like a very nice fellow and very interesting.

http://www.paulbertholy.com/paulbert..._the_Book.html

I am not supporting the guy doing these videos, just the actual drills.

Here is a video:

http://youtu.be/ekvMiA28rZY

http://youtu.be/Gj-i4dXUyRo

ICT

innercityteacher 07-29-2012 10:18 PM
For further Right Elbow Edification...

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=56369&highlight=right+elbow#post5 6369


Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,391
T'aint Magic. 'Tis Mechanics
Delaware Golf wrote:

Quote:
Yoda,

Throughout my academic career, sometimes it's good to experience what the wrong approach is to truly value the correct or optimal approach. So, at times bad can be good!!! I guess I'm OK with one Right Triceps Thrust reference as long as any Right Forearm Thrust or Driving Right Forearm reference is not eliminated from the book. But, remember, I warned you of the potential problem with that reference. Yeee hawwwww However, if Homer was still with us, I would be the first one on an Airplane to Seattle to discuss with him.

DG

Quote:
Hey, DG! I found something you might want to see! What do you make of thisrewrite under the 7-20 Trigger Types?

"Page 109, 7-20, paragraph 2, nextto last sentence rewrite:

"Remember -- only Right Elbow Feel -- neither the Triceps or LagPressure -- can safely Monitor the Paddlewheel Motion of the straightening ofthe Right Arm for proper Clubface Closing motion (6-B-3-0-1)."


Is that more in line with what you are saying?

Whether it is or isn't, know that if Homer was still here, I'd be the first tojump on that airplane with you. But don't think for a minute you could get awaywith discussing just one thing with that guy. Asking him just one question waslike starting with the first link of a very long chain. You just keptgoing and going and going!

Also, not to worry: All the Driving Right Arms and Right ForearmThrustings of the 6th edition remain intact.

Life is so good!




Quote:
Delaware Golf wrote:

Yoda,

No wonder Homer favored hitting and right arm action…control, control, and more control (power regulation and hinging action (ball control) become very easy to execute with skillful manipulation of the right forearm and elbow. It's amazing what a golfer can do once they understand Hinging, Power Package Loading Action and Power Package Release with right arm action, the options for the golfer are pretty dynamic, especially in the short game.

DG

Quote:
That's why The Man said (in the last paragraph of 7-3):

"All of this you will come to know as THE MAGIC OF THE RIGHTFOREARM."
(All capitals are Homer's.)

innercityteacher 07-29-2012 10:31 PM
Other important considerations for the "Right Elbow Drive."

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=56204&highlight=right+elbow#post5 6204

Quote:

However, while the Pre-Turned Right Hip is helpful to the On LineSwinger it is essential to the Cross Line Hitter. His Closed Plane Lineproduces a Cross Line Clubhead Path and with it, a Right Hip—Right Elbowconflict. This Path (and its problematic Hip—Elbow conflict) may be preciselyidentified by observing the On Plane Right Forearm Angle of Approach inImpact Fix and the parallel Clubhead Angle of Approach through Impact.And the curious fact is that your Hands simply will not take the Club backon that Line if your Right Hip is in the way. And it is! You can tell them-- out loud if you wish -- that you will move the Hip immediately in Start Up,but they will not believe you. As Homer used to say, "The Hands just won'tbuy it." And so they just 'go around' the Hip and take the Club Off Planein the process.

So, if you're going to Cross Line Hit, you must Pre-Turn theRight Hip. And since the Pre-Turned Hip is perfectly acceptable (and even advisable)for On Line Swingers as well, Homer made it the Basic Hip Action Component for bothBasic Stroke Patterns. Why should you have to spend years learning andusing Standard Hip Action -- with On Line Swinging or On Line Hitting orboth -- only to find out that the Pre-Turned Hip of Delayed Hip Action ismandated by the more sophisticated Cross Line Hit? And then be forced to startall over again learning a new Hip Action Component and then integrating itinto your Basic Pattern? Or else forego The Joy of Cross Line Hitting.

You see, Homer knew long before you did that you would be following him downthis road, and he wanted to make your transition as easy as possible.

Pretty neat, don't you think?

innercityteacher 07-29-2012 10:35 PM
Following signs along the trail og the "Right Elbow Drive"

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=427&highlight=Right+Elbow+Drive#p ost427

Quote:
Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,391
Delayed Release -- Hitters Vs. Swingers
Quote:
Originally posted by MizunoJoe
I'd like to see someone duplicate, in geometry AND results, a max trigger delay, max lag Swing with a Hitting motion. I don't believe it's possible. In other words, if a player's Swing and Hitting procedure look the same AND produce essentially the same result, his Swing uses an auto or non-auto sweep release.
MJ,

Both Swingers and Hitters delay their Release for Maximum Power. This is the Sameness (1-K). The Difference is that Swingers Load and Delay the Release of their Left Wrist. Hitters Load and Delay the Release of their Right Elbow.

Many Swingers have experienced the Feel of the Delayed Left Wrist Throw. Few have ever experienced the Feel of the Delayed Right Elbow Drive. Until they do, they will simply never understand...
__________________
Yoda

innercityteacher 07-29-2012 11:28 PM
"Right Elbow Drive"

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=427&highlight=Right+Elbow+Drive#p ost427


Quote:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,391
A Tale Of Two Thrusts
Originally Posted by Trigolt
Originally Posted by Yoda
Few have ever experienced the Feel of the Delayed Right Elbow Drive. Until they do, they will simply never understand...
When you say delayed right elbow drive, are you saying delaying the deliberate straightening of the right arm?

I thought we should be constantly applying extensor action throughout the entire motion, including the downstroke. How do you delay it then?
The Hitter's Extensor Action of the Right Triceps is a Below Plane Stretching Action (applied against the Left Thumb) that does not move the Left Arm. It is a Non-Accelerating Thrust that supplies Power Package Mass (6-C-0-2).

In contrast, the Right Elbow Drive is an Accelerating Thrust (6-C-0-1) directed On Plane (1-L-#10/#11) that actively Drives the Primary Lever Assembly (Left Arm and Club) and Sweet Spot through Impact. This Motion is anything but a 'gentle Stretching' of the Left Arm. Instead, it is a decisive -- even rigid (7-1) -- Thrust! that Uncocks both the Right Elbow and the Left Wrist.

Make no mistake: It is the Basic Drive of the Hitter's Stroke.
__________________

innercityteacher 07-29-2012 11:32 PM
Why some of my shots are great and some "just ok!"

The right elbow must wait until the right forearm is on plane!

Quote:
golfingrandy
Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 48
Re: Delayed Release -- Hitters Vs. Swingers
Originally Posted by Trigolt
Originally Posted by Yoda
Few have ever experienced the Feel of the Delayed Right Elbow Drive. Until they do, they will simply never understand...
When you say delayed right elbow drive, are you saying delaying the deliberate straightening of the right arm?

I thought we should be constantly applying extensor action throughout the entire motion, including the downstroke. How do you delay it then?
With Hitting, the driving does not and should not take place until the right forearm is on plane. Think about it, when you turn the right forearm is not on plane with the plane. The clubshaft is on plane with the plane. So as part of the Flying Wedges, when that right forearm gets back on plane, you can now apply that precious and precise driving on plane force.

So what do most golfers fight? They fail to get the right forearm on plane which in turn means they do not get the force on plane. They then come in to high with the right forearm and in return they must flip the club for if they did not...they would flat out miss the ball.

Homer expresses with mush clarity the other name he should have and could have used for his work. "Plane GOLF"

One more tip. The Flying Wedges dictate that the right arm must always be on the aft side of the club.

Hope this aids a small bit.

Randy

innercityteacher 07-29-2012 11:34 PM
Clarity is a beautiful thing!


Quote:
golfingrandy
Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 48
Re: Delayed Release -- Hitters Vs. Swingers
Originally Posted by Richw
If I understand this correctly, extensor action, as per 6-c-0-2, is purely the stretching of the left arm and 6-c-0-1 is the thrust applied by the right forearm. And the thrust is not applied until the right forearm is on plane, which should be when the forearm is almost at hip height. Good so far?

If I am correct, then the first 6-8" down from the top is merely the pull from the hip slide?
Rich,

The following may sound incomplete or I should say, you may be looking for more but lets think about it. Contrary to some popular beliefs, some of these are in "the know" as it pertains to Homer and The Golfing Machine, the Right Forearm supplies nothing as it pertains to force. Huh? Yep, forearms are used for gripping things (It is great when one has friends in the medical field and they play golf for free at your club ). Though Homer may not have been a doctor, he never the less got it right. Would you expect anything less. NO!

More importantly, when does one begin to drive? Can one view a location to monitor? The answer is yes. This is very good news for golfers. Again, think about it. For the Right Forearm to get on plane, what needs to first be on plane? You betcha'! The right elbow. Now the a biggie! What straightens the right elbow? The right tricep. Now do a search in your book about triceps. Rich, there is no fog here on the beach. Darn, is that where a so called "Bash" is going to be held? LOL!!!

Hope this helps a little more.

Randy

innercityteacher 07-29-2012 11:39 PM
More clarity.
 
WOW! I have to get to a mirror!

Quote:
Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,391
Right Forearm And Tricep -- Incubator Twins
Originally Posted by Delaware Golf
The driving action in right arm swinging or true hitting comes from the right forearm....per 1-F. The triceps supply muscle power but the trigger is the right forearm. I guarantee you, if you start focusing on your triceps to drive the club through impact you will eventually create a condition of automatic clubhead throwaway and generate flat golf shots....no power!!! IF you don't believe me....let her rip with tricep thrust. I believe you will not find one phrase in the book that says right tricep thrust.....you will find right tricep muscle power and right tricep speed....all thrusting comments are exclusively right forearm....just checkout section 7-3....right forearm thrust is mentioned and no where will you find right tricep thrust or a driving right tricep.

That's why section 10-20 is called trigger types...something has to trigger the release of the power package!!!

DG
The following six points may help those Incubating this issue:

1. The Right Triceps is useless without the Right Forearm. And vice versa.

2. Nowhere in The Golfing Machine does Homer Kelley suggest that the Golfer use the Right Triceps consciously to produce the Major Basic Strokes. Instead, he uses the Magic of the Right Forearm and Elbow.

3. The Golfer also uses the Right Forearm to monitor the "dynamically in-line" On Plane Feel (2-F) and the Three-Dimensional Tracing of the Straight Plane Line (2-N-O).

4. While the six published editions of TGM do not contain the exact wording Right Triceps Thrust, the intent is clear. That intent is made certain in the unpublished 7th edition's revision to page 38. A new Paragraph Three reads as follows and should be written into your Book:

"Power package Muscle Power is almost entirely Right Triceps Thrust straightening the Right Elbow to furnish both Extensor Action and #1 Accumulator Power."

5. Awareness of an Active Right Arm is achieved only through monitoring an Active Right Elbow (7-20).

6. The Hitter's fundamental Release Trigger is the Right Arm Throw (10-20-B). This pure Right Arm Push cannot be accomplished except by the Right Triceps and its instrument, the Right Forearm, and it cannot be monitored except through an awareness of an Active Right Elbow.
__________________
Yoda

innercityteacher 07-29-2012 11:49 PM
More

This just pasting stuff is sort of fun, however in my case I am happy to say it will be used, misused, abused, and confused several times before lowering my hcp to a +2 in my dreams then in reality!


Quote:
Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,391
Left WRIST Throw-Out / Right ELBOW Drive-Out
Originally Posted by Daryl
I have "Throw out" tattooed on my Left Wrist and "Drive out" Tattooed on my Right Forearm.
Close, Daryl . . . very close.

Can you move that tatoo to your Right Elbow? It is the Elbow, not the Forearm, that is the #1 Power Accumulator (and that supplies the Right Arm Drive).

Then again, you probably couldn't see the words if they were tatooed on your elbow.

So, never mind!

innercityteacher 07-30-2012 12:10 AM
Double wow, WOW!

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=35459&highlight=Right+Elbow+Drive #post35459

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda
Yoda On the Basic Motion (Stage One) -- Demonstration and Explanation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like what I see in this Basic Motion Stroke (12-5-1 / Hitting Pattern).

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/gallery/files/yoda_basic/

The Basic Motion (Stage One) involves a miniaturized Stroke (12-0) -- approximately two feet back and two feet through. It puts in place the Basic Body Position and the Power Package alignments. It is a One-Accumulator Stroke, and that one Accumulator may be either the Right Arm (Accumulator #1 / Hitting) or the Left ( Accumulator #4 / Swinging).

I have elected to begin the Stroke from the Half-and-Half Fix (10-8-C). Here, the Body is in Standard Address Position, and the Hands are in their Impact Location and Position. This is the second of four Address Position alternatives listed in 10-9-0; namely, "Both at selected Impact" (10-9-0-2).

Let's examine this Selected Impact Address Position (10-9-B) and its Power Package alignments and then the Basic Stroke itself.

The Body

1. Square Stance and Plane Line.

2. Feet close together with Weight slightly toward heels.

3. Appropriate Knee and Waist Bend.

4. Hips Square.

5. Head centered.

The Arms

1. In Normal Position, i.e., Left Arm Straight and Right Arm Bent (6-A-4).

2. Right Forearm On Plane (2-F).

3. Left Arm and Right Forearm Flying Wedges established and properly aligned (6-B-3-0-1).

The Hands

1. Strong Single-Action Grip (10-2-B).

2. In Impact Location.

3. Left Wrist Flat.

The Club

1. Forward-Leaning Clubshaft.

2. Clubface Square.

The Stroke

1. Only one of the Arm Accumulators (Right Arm or Left) is active in this Stage One. The Hand Action Accumulators (Left Wrist Cock and Uncock and Left Hand Turn and Roll) are introduced in Stage Two (Acquired Motion). I have chosen to use the Right Arm and the bending and straightening of the Right Elbow to lift and lower the Left Arm (7-3) and to provide the Basic Thrust of the Stroke. Thus, this is a Hitting Stroke. Had I elected to Swing, I would have used my Left Arm to Pull the Club through Impact (Pull Minor Basic Stroke / 10-3-D). Also, I may have used the Standard Address Position with an Extensor Action Takeaway (6-B-1-D) to Flatten the Left Wrist (and Bend the Right) in Start-Up. Had that been the case, Backstroke Arm Motion would have been minimal. Downstroke action and alignments would have remained the same.

2. Note that my Right Shoulder moves little, if at all, throughout the Stroke. That's because I am using my bending Right Arm -- and not my rocking Body -- to move the Club away from the Ball. In Start Up, I apply Extensor Action against Pressure Point #1 (heel of the Right Hand against the Left Hand thumb), and I use my Right Forearm and bending Right Elbow to "Carry" (7-9) the Left Arm and Club (Primary Lever Assembly) to the Top (Up, Back and In in a true Three-Dimensional Start-Up). The Right Forearm Fans (about the Elbow) and Traces the Straight Plane Line. Had this been a Swing, I would have used a "Swing-Back" Motion instead of the Hitter's "Carry-Back" Motion. Also, when using Standard Address position of the Hands, I would initiate Extensor Action using Pressure Point #3 [Right Hand index finger] to pull the Left Arm and Clubshaft In-Line. But no matter which Motion is employed, the geometry of the Right Arm and Elbow Action -- how they 'look' to an observer -- is identical. All this is in stark contrast to most golfers whose Basic Motion is to freeze their Right Arm and Elbow and then to rock their Body back-and-forth to move the Club (Paw Minor Basic Stroke / 10-3-H). (I used to do this.)

3. During the Start Down, I Load my bent Right Elbow against Pressure Point #3 (Drive Loading / 10-19-A). From the Top, I simply Push radially (sidewise) the entire Left Arm and Club Assembly through Impact (Right Arm Throw / 10-20-B). When Swinging, I Load my Level Left Wrist against Pressure Point #2, the last three fingers of the Left Hand (Drag Loading / 10-19-C). I then simply Pull longitudinally (lengthwise) only the Club itself through Impact (Left Wrist Throw / 10-20-E).

4. At Impact, I have returned precisely to my Half-and-Half Fix Address Position alignments. The Body -- including the Head -- has remained Motionless and the Power Package (Arms, Hands and Club) has returned to its Impact alignments. Compare Photos #1 and #14. They are identical.

5. Through Impact, my Right Elbow Drive-Out against Pressure Point #3 (and possibly #1) has automatically produced Angled Hinge Action (10-10-C). That is, the Flat Left Wrist has remained perpendicular (Vertical) to the Angled Plane of the Stroke. This Action is executed as a 'No Roll' Feel and produces a 'Half-Roll' of the Clubface at the end of the Follow-Through. In contrast, the Swinger's Centrifugal Force Throw-Out will automatically produce Horizontal Hinge Action (10-10-D). That is, the Flat Left Wrist will remain perpendicular (Vertical) to the Horizontal Plane. This Action is executed as a 'Roll' Feel and produces a 'Full-Roll' of the Clubface. All Hinge Actions MUST be executed on the Straight Line Delivery Line. This is the essential requirement for all Golf Strokes and why only Items #22 and #39 are capitalized in the Mechanical Checklist For All Strokes (12-3-0).

6. My bent Right Elbow at Impact continues its Drive toward the Plane Line (NOT toward the Target!) during the Follow-Through (1-L-10 and -15). (I missed this but because I am at Impact Fix and stay on it, I blunder into this often.) The Angled Hinge Action has insured that the Left Arm and Clubshaft have remained In-Line and that there is perfect Rhythm (RPM).

7. The Stroke concludes when my Right Arm has fully-straightened (6-G-0-C). This is the end of the Follow-Through (Section 11), and because it is also the end of the Stroke, it constitutes the Finish (Section 12). Since the Thrust has continued Down Plane until the Right Elbow has fully-straightened, there properly has been no 'Upstroke.' This despite the fact that the Club itself has passed Low Point (opposite the Left Shoulder) and has begun its own Upward, Inward and Forward journey to the Finish.

Work on your Basic Motion. Pay attention to each Component and its alignments. This is the foundation-stone of your Stroke and of your Game.

It is no less than The Gateway to your best Golf.
__________________
Yoda
__________________
"Golf is not a subject but a motor skill which can only be learned and not taught." - Michael Hebron
"The Body, Arms and Hands have specific assignments during the Golf Stroke, and they must be coordinated into one efficient motion." - Lynn Blake

innercityteacher 07-30-2012 12:24 AM
I know this is important, also, and I have to ruminate on this.


Quote:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,391
Zero Pivot And the Right Shoulder
Originally Posted by golfbulldog

...for there to be no pivot the right shoulder needs to be preset in its impact degree of "downness"... otherwise the right shoulder needs to move down to maintain lag sensation at pp3 and this movement automatically creates pivot.

SO zero pivot can be done but 12 inches back and forward at most and ball needs to be back in stance and right shoulder down at impact height...and impact address probably better for both hit nd swing... to ensure no pivot and right shoulder preset in down impact position...
The Right Shoulder is part of both the Pivot and the Power Package. Therefore, when Power Package Thrust alone actuates the Primary Lever Assembly (Left Arm and Club), Shoulder Motion does not violate a Zero Pivot requirement (2-H).

If, on the other hand, the Shoulder is Pulled into Start Down by the Hip Action, then there has been Pivot Thrust and at least a Partial Pivot.

innercityteacher 07-30-2012 12:27 AM
more clarity


http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=26258&highlight=Right+Elbow+Drive #post26258

Quote:
1. Use Angled Hinging for the Right Arm Only Stroke. Feel the On Plane Paddlewheel nature of the Right Forearm action from Release (8-9) to Both Arms Straight (8-11). The is the 'Underhand Pitch, Motion and Feel' (2-N-0) that keeps the Clubshaft On Plane.

2. There is no 'dual' Angled Hinge Action because the one Angled Hinge governs both Clubshaft and Clubface. For all practical purposes, Horizontal and Vertical Hinging will always be 'dual.' That's because you need two hinges: one to control the Clubshaft and another to control the Clubface.

3. In the shorter Non-Pivot Strokes, Swingers should use the Magical Right Forearm Takeaway (7-3) on the Backstroke; then, on the Downstroke, use the Minor Basic Left Arm Pull Stroke (10-3-D) to Pull the Club through Impact. In the longer Strokes -- from the Top -- they should emphasize the Right Shoulder Turn thrust of the #4 Accumulator (6-B-4-0/A/B/C) to 'crank up the gyroscope' of Centrifugal Force.

Hitters -- with or without Shoulder Turn Thrust -- should use the Right Arm Throw (10-20-B) to Trigger the Release, and then use Right Elbow Drive (6-B-1-0/A/B/C) to Push the Club through Impact. If you are more comfortable with this latter action, then use it and learn The Joy of Hitting. A technique that emphasizes Right Arm Power is more 'natural' to most of us, and because of the active sensing of Muscular Thrust -- as opposed to the passive sensing of Centrifugal Force -- it is the best way to learn to use the Right Forefinger #3 Pressure Point. The key to the effective use of the Right Arm is learning to straighten it without Flattening the Bent Right Wrist. Experiment and see which way works best for you.
__________________

innercityteacher 07-30-2012 12:33 AM
Why I like Hitting out of the sand and using my right elbow to chip!
 
I get out of sand all the time now and the ball runs to the target as do most of my chips. :)


THIS IS THE HITTING VIDEO I HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE AND INCLUDES A COMPLETE "CLAP YOUR HANDS" EXPLANATION!

http://youtu.be/c3C1__L5usM




Quote:
Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,391
12-5-1...It Is What It Is
Originally Posted by tongzilla

I didn't mean the full fireworks e.g. spinning the flywheel and Right Shoulder Drive to Load PP#4, etc...

I meant using just a little Pivot to give that Left Arm a little mini blast off, as opposed to using your left arm muscles to move to left arm (ala Ben Doyle...that's a discussion for another day )
The Right Shoulder Turn Thrust drives the Left Arm in a Pivot Stroke. And the Shoulders are a Dual Agent (2-H, 7-13), i.e., they are part of both the Power Package and the Pivot. So, Shoulder Motion (and Action) does not violate the requirements for Zero Pivot.

However...

In addition to Zero Pivot, the Basic Motion of 12-5-1 specifies that the Shoulder Turn also be Zero. Remember, this is a tiny shot. As I've previously stated, everybody wants to make this motion bigger than it is. Per 6-B-4-0 and 10-3-D, the Left Arm motion can be independent of the Pivot.

Point of information: In the as-yet-unpublished 7th edition, Homer Kelley changed the Zero Pivot requirement of 12-5-2 to Minimal Pivot. In addition to the already permitted Downstroke Shoulder Turn, this expansion satisfies the need for the Swinger's essentially inert Left Arm to pick up a little Body Momentum Transfer from a 'thrown' Right Shoulder via the Hip Action of 7-15. In addition, it also satisfies more than a little 'psychological need.'

Bottom line: I'm all for the Swinger's 'mini-blast-off' in 12-5-2 (Acquired Motion) and the major-blastoff of 12-5-3 (Total Motion), but...

In the Basic Motion of 12-5-1...

Nada.

The Left Arm is on its own.

Which, of course, is why Hitting -- Right Elbow Drive -- is so attractive in the Short Strokes.
__________________
Yoda

innercityteacher 07-30-2012 01:18 AM
This video is my key to swinging by pushing/throwing/firing the right arm/shoulder DOWN AT THE BASE LINE OF THE PLANE and by implication the left wrist straight down after the Pivot!

http://youtu.be/vVws0CQqTDc

In contrast the Hit is the firing of the elbow/fore arm/ bent right wrist and # 3 PP to the right of the target/out or "cross line."

Hitting is out or cross line first, not down first.

http://youtu.be/1y2fH0ooCoQ

innercityteacher 07-30-2012 01:56 AM
Durrr...........


I have been Swinging not Hitting as my Pivot dragged me forward I would fire my right ELBOW/forearm AT THE TARGET NOT CROSS-LINE, giving me all sorts of extra power. But I have been Hitting my chips and sand shots.

Bumpy 07-30-2012 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93214)
Durrr...........


I have been Swinging not Hitting as my Pivot dragged me forward I would fire my right ELBOW/forearm AT THE TARGET NOT CROSS-LINE, giving me all sorts of extra power. But I have been Hitting my chips and sand shots.
At least one of us is confused. Give me time to catch up, I got to get some work done(purely cosmetic). In the interim I ask you this, where is the target and direction of resultant thrust?

Bumpy

innercityteacher 07-31-2012 12:02 AM
Oh, it's me no worries.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpy (Post 93221)
At least one of us is confused. Give me time to catch up, I got to get some work done(purely cosmetic). In the interim I ask you this, where is the target and direction of resultant thrust?

Bumpy
If you get work done, will you be less "Bumpy." I am teasing here and hope all your "work" goes smoothly, of course.

Every time I use the search function and seriously apply what I learn, my game improves, although I do not always see the exact reasons why.

Daryl explained to me that the curing bicep motion places my wedges so that my # 3 PP can be fired on plane with good effect. And sometimes, I just Hit with usually good effect, especially in sand and chip shots and shots within 100 yards.

Now I say "Hit" having just realized these last few days that the club traces from 7 to 1 o'clock or it is not a hit nor a 4 barrel hit. :naughty:

But I often start from genuine Impact Fix and sort of always come from 7 to 1 these days with a big Pivot and, Bicep curl and right elbow thrust. It has become automatic with some nice results.

However, sometimes from Impact Fix, when I get tired, I simply Hula-Hula and hit my usual straight shot with a high fade or draw depending on my balance and ball position. Drive is about 240 down the middle.

As I said, though, I just realized that in my Swinging, I am not accelerating my hands DOWN and in my Hitting, I am not accelerating my hands OUT from 7 to 1. I guess I just thought shifting with my Hula and dropping my elbow down was some sort of swing. I now don't think it is based on my research into the right elbow drive. :read:

So i have been Hitting a lot sort of unconsciously and saved by my proper Impact Fix position. Sometimes I Hit the ball to 1 o'clock and hit 300 yard plus drives with roll out and sometimes I am less effective in my strike and am saved by my Angle Hinge and Bent right wrist sending the ball down the middle with a playable fade.

I am going to sharpen my technique adding Hand Acceleration/Throw Out to my shoulder acceleration to get better club acceleration in Swinging and be more deliberate in my drive out to 1 o'clock in my hitting.

My elbows will remain at my side in putting and putting my chips, and the elbow will be driven in my sand shots, chips and pitches for now. :)

ICT

innercityteacher 08-01-2012 11:04 PM
Really good right elbow/forearm on plane post and thanks to Daryl for the encouragements and insights.


http://youtu.be/c3C1__L5usM

http://youtu.be/HYfOw_7jCTA

http://youtu.be/sA9Fz28Zu2M

http://youtu.be/iCWUyW0cN-w

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=35946&highlight=right+elbow#post3 5946

Quote:
12 piece bucket
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Thomasville, NC
Posts: 4,377
Originally Posted by lagster
DISCUSS... "The Accumulator #3 motion must be accommodated in the Impact alignment or it will (with great loss of Power) produce a Quitting of the Hand motion and/or a Quitting of the Overtaking action in an effort to avoid Pulled shots. That wilted feeling of a "Blocked Out" Stroke is a tip-off of a faulty Approach Angle." (from 6-B-3-O)
This is an important and subtle point. We must examine four related areas inorder to make the proper connection according to Homer Kelley.

1. Impact Alignments
2. The #3 Accumulator
3. The Magic of the Right Forearm
4. Clubhead Line of Flight and the Visual Equivalents

Step One would be to examine Impact Alignments . . . Why?
2-J-1 IMPACT ALIGNMENTS The geometry of all alignments stems form the Impact geometry requirements. So, the first step in preparation for a Golf Shot is the establishment of the Impact Conditions
Note the word "preparation." The Machine is prep'ed where? At Fix. In regards to this discussion we are talking the preparation of taking the Grip at Impact fix with the Left Wrist facing down the Angle of Approach of the On-Plane Right Forearm.

It is here that the #3 Accumulator Angle is established. Per 6-B-3-0 . . .
Power Accumulator #3 is formed by the angle established between the Clubshaft and the Left Forearm. Accumulator #3 should never be “Out-of-Line – instead, it seeks to MAINTAIN its radial alignment with the Left Arm and Left Wrist vertical to its associated Plane.
So how do we establish our #3 Angle? We establish it at Impact (Fix) because this is where ALL Alignments originate.

So at Impact the Left Wrist is LEVEL right?

SO THE #3 ACCUMULATOR ANGLE (THE ANGLE BETWEEN THE LEFT ARM AND CLUBSHAFT) IS ESTABLISHED WHEN THE LEFT WRIST IS IN ITS LEVEL CONDITION (THE IMPACT/FIX CONDITION)

Now to get to the meat of your question . . .

Notice in the 6-B-3-0 quote the word MAINTAINED is captalized. Homer is effectively screaming this word at us. And he also says that #3 "Accumulator #3 should never be “Out-of-Line""

So the #3 Accumulator is STATIC. It is the Angle between the Left Arm and Clubshaft that you ROLL through Impact. And remember the Left Wrist is LEVEL at Impact not UNCOCKED. It is uncockING but not Uncocked.

Now how in the world is this related to the Magic of the Right Forearm? Well per 6-B-3-0 . . .
The “On Plane” Right Forearm ALWAYS establishes and maintains the correct Clubshaft-Left Arm angle through Release and Impact. See 7-3.
And again in 6-B-3-1 . . .
The Clubhead may appear to move in a an arc around and outside the Hands when related to the Left Arm – the very basic Left Arm Flying Wedge. But when related to the Right Forearm, it appears to move “On Plane” with the Right Forearm, at its normal rigid angle (Bent Right Wrist) – the Right Forearm Flying Wedge.
Now let's move on to 7-3 Strokes Basic . . . Per 7-3 Right Elbow Position is very much related to the MAINTAINING #3 Accumulator Angle:

7-3 STROKES – BASIC Because of the dominant role of Accumulator #3 (6-3-B-0, 2-N, 2-P), Golf Strokes are very dependent on the Right Elbow activity deriving from its location and the nature of the subsequent Right Arm participation.
So the On-Plane Right Forearm has TONS AND TONS of Magic. For one it has it's on procedure established at Fix. The Right Forearm Angle of Approach. This is the position of the Right Forearm taken at FIX. And if the Right Forearm is RETURNED PRECISELY TO THIS POSITION THE #3 ACCUMULATOR WILL BE MAINTAINED.

But remember per 2-F:
The Right Forearm of every Hacker comes into Impact too high – pointing beyond the Delivery Line during Downstroke (2-J-3, 7-3). Study 2-G and Components 5, 6, and 7.
And how does the Right Forearm relate to the disruption of the #3 Angle? Per 7-3 . . .
Furthermore, in compliance with 6-B-3-0-1, Bending and Straightening the Right Elbow will RAISE AND LOWER the Left Arm and/or COCK AND UNCOCK the Left Wrist with out Bending, Flattening or Cocking the Right Wrist. Practice this first at Impact Fix. So, the Right Elbow Action either powers and/or controls all three elements of Three Dimensional Impact (6-C-0) per 1-L-9. All this you will come to know as the MAGIC OF THE RIGH FOREARM.
So the Right Forearm can DESTROY Rhythm if it is not precisely brought back to its Angle of Approach. Precision Clubface Control is the Left Hand's responsiblity but the Right Arm can destroy #3 which is Rhythm which is Hinge Action which is Clubface Control.
Even with the Pitch Basic Stroke. So the Right Forearm must leave – and precisely return to – its own Fix Position (7- “Angle of Approach” (regardless of the true Clubhead Angle of Approach) because both procedures will produce identical Clubhead Delivery Lines.
And for MORE Magic as it relates to this topic. Back to 7-3 . . .

. ALWAYS, for all procedures, the Right Forearm is position “On Plane” – pointing at the Plane Line as the Angle of Attack (2-N). The On Plane Right Forearm shows the precise up-and-down direction it and the Clubshaft must take throughout the Stroke (2-J-3). The “Angle of Approach” position of the Right Forearm shows the precise Cross-Line direction the Forearm must take through Impact. It, thereby, precisely locates the visual Impact Point – where the eye must direct the Pressure Point #3 – the inside-aft quadrant of the Ball. Remember, the Actual Angle of Approach of the Clubhead is determined by Ball Position (2-N) so the Cross Line position of the Right Forearm is ONLY the On Plane Forearm Thrust per 1-L-9/10/11.


The Magic here is the On-Plane Right Forearm at Fix SHOWS you the Cross-Line direction of Thrust be it muscle power of the Right Tricep in Hitting or CF in Swinging. Thrust is ALWAYS Cross-Line. So another disruptor of the #3 Angle is not going ALL THE WAY DOWN and ALL THE WAY OUT.

If the target of your Thrust is the GREEN not only will your Left Wrist BEND but you will ALSO DESTROY THE #3 ACCUMULATOR ANGLE AND THEREBY DESTROY RHYTHM AS WELL. So it is important in any procedure that YOUR target is the green but YOUR CLUBHEAD'S TARGET IS THE BALL. Or even better the PLANE LINE.

This is where that Wilted Feeling comes from.

That's all I got to say on that . . .
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand

Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand

#3
11-14-2006, 12:20 PM

KOC
Senior Member

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Low Point?
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
YOUR CLUBHEAD'S TARGET IS THE BALL. Or even better the PLANE LINE. .
Shall it be the low point?






#7
11-14-2006, 02:42 PM

12 piece bucket
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Thomasville, NC
Posts: 4,377

Basically it boils down to this . . .

The #3 Accumulator is the angle set between your left arm and clubshaft. You make it when you grip the club. The #3 angle is set when your left wrist is flat AND LEVEL. So if you put the club in the CUP of your left hand #3 is zero. If you grip it under the heel pad you have established the angle. More is not always better in this regard. Just a little under the heel pad is fine.

The #3 Accumulator is STATIC or tries to be. You want to ROLL that angle through impact as you employ your hinging.

But the Right Forearm can SUPPORT the Rolling of #3 or DESTROY it. So that is why it is important to have your right forearm come back to its On-Plane position at Fix.

If it comes in too high . . . #3 will be compromised. You will not have that angle to roll through the ball and your Left Wrist will be Uncocked and not LEVEL as it should be at Impact. Power and precision are sacrified.

innercityteacher 08-01-2012 11:27 PM
What I understand all this to mean is that starting at Impact Fix, I MUST carry back my hands from 7 o'clock and drive out my right elbow cross line to 1 o'clock to hit through the ball with a slight hip bump allowing the right elbow to drive freely to 1 o'clock before slinging the right forearm to right field.

When Swinging, my Pivot drag loads the wedges/gyroscope before releasing/accelerating my right arm throw which accelerates the club DOWN vertically un-cockingtracing the base line of the plane and back up the face of the plane with the forward swivel.

This is what I will do and will report on!

http://youtu.be/iCWUyW0cN-w

ICT

innercityteacher 08-04-2012 02:56 PM
Importance of Setting the club face open or closed is real as is ball position!

Right Elbow and PP # 3 cross-line produces a real fade unless adjusted and Right Elbow straight down followed by hand acceleration (throwing it DOWN) produces a real draw. Dropping my elbow Down and accelerating my hands produces a straight ball or a nice power fade.

Keeping my elbows tucked in for putting and putting chips keeps shots on line PROVIDED I READ THE LINE! DURRR!

A day full of bogies = 86 with three doubles on a par 72! as I was mechanics oriented, not line oriented!


I'm Swinging as a basic pattern now and will see how low I can go with good short game tools! But once I figure out the correct Hitting ball positions watch out! Those hits can really travel!

HCP index at 10.9

ICT

innercityteacher 08-05-2012 05:00 PM
Clapping for power!


Quote:
EdZ
Lynn Blake Certified Instructor

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Qingdao, China
Posts: 1,639
Originally Posted by ChrisNZ
But if the left palm is on the plane, and the left shoulder is not, then neither is the left arm, hence there must be an angle between the palm and the arm - how can the left wrist be flat?

Or is it to do with the subtle anatomy of the hand (I must look like an idiot sitting here at my desk cocking my wrist up and down - my wife is always telling me to stop forming golf grips and the like when we're in public together!)

Thanks,
Chris
Imagine you are rolling your left arm up and down a plane board the would rest under your upper arms at address. You are 'hugging' the plane, the wheel, - clapping your hands on it. Rotation takes place around this point if you turn and roll the forearms, back and through. Hitters tend to resist the natural 'roll' caused by the clubs design, and keep the back of the left hand more perpendicular to the plane in 'feel'. A frisbee toss motion for example. See the drills section for a few more examples.
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"

"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"

Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2

innercityteacher 08-06-2012 11:43 PM
more clarity...

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showt...ht=angle+hinge

Quote:
Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,431
Inside-Out, Inside-Aft And Tracing
Originally Posted by DDL
However, I was also not tracing the plane line with PP#3. By trying to strike the ball from an inside out path, I was actually tracing a plane line that was going out to right field.

Am I on the right track that:

1) the right arm ala #3PP is initially directed in a straight line towards the inside aft quadrant of the ball, and that

2) horizontal hinging with the left hand redirects the inside out motion of the wedges to an onplane motion so that PP3 traces the plane line parallel to the target line, and the blur of the clubhead is the proper inside-out-inside motion.

Still can't reconcile an inside out motion with tracing the plane line, which is going forward.
DDL,

I reprinted from your post the Quote below. My answers appear in bold.

************************************

1. However, I was also not tracing the plane line with PP#3. By trying to strike the ball from an inside out path, I was actually tracing a plane line that was going out to right field.

There is a difference between the Inside-Out Impact that is characteristic of all On Plane Downstrokes and the Inside-Out Stroke wherein the Clubhead actually crosses the Line of Flight per 10-5-E. The latter should be avoided unless:

-- The player is deliberately attempting to produce a Draw or Hook;

-- The player is deliberately employing the Hitter's Angle of Approach procedure (2-J-3). In this instance, he will erect an Inclined Plane whose baseline is 'out to right field' (10-5-E Closed Plane Line) and then 'Cover' -- not Trace -- that Line with his Clubhead.


2. Am I on the right track that:

-- the right arm ala #3PP is initially directed in a straight line towards the inside aft quadrant of the ball...

Thrust is directed at the inside-aft quadrant of the Ball only when the player is (a) monitoring the (Cross-Line) Delivery Path (of the Hands per 10-23); or (b) is employing the Hitter's (Cross-Line) Angle of Approach procedure. Otherwise, Swingers (and Hitters) monitoring the (On Line) Geometric Plane Line (the Straight Line Baseline of the Inclined Plane per 2-J-3) should direct Thrust directly at the back of the Ball. In all instances the Thrust is directed by the Tracing Right Forearm and Forefinger (#3 Pressure Point).

2) horizontal hinging with the left hand redirects the inside out motion of the wedges to an onplane motion so that PP3 traces the plane line parallel to the target line, and the blur of the clubhead is the proper inside-out-inside motion.

Hinge Action is independent of Plane and Power. Any Hinge Action can be executed on any Inclined Plane and with any one or combination of Power Accumulators.

Still can't reconcile an inside out motion with tracing the plane line, which is going forward.

You must think in terms of the Three-Dimensional Attack Angle, i.e., the player's view from above the Plane's surface. As the player Traces (with his Right Forearm and #3 Pressure Point) the Straight Line Baseline of the Plane (Forward movement), the Clubhead is simultaneously moving toward the Plane Line (Down and Out movement). Hence, both the Line of Flight of the Clubhead and the motion of the Right Forearm are Three-Dimensional (2-N-0).
__________________
Yoda

innercityteacher 08-07-2012 09:01 PM
more clarity...

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6087&highlight=angle+hinge#post60 87

Quote:
bantamben1
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 124
why would it be trouble, that was hogans bread and butter he just weakened his grip so his left thumb was pointing straight down the shaft that made it so it always approached the ball a little open. but if you have a strong grip with horizontal hinging thats a different story then you would just have to open the face at address enough so it would never fully square up at impact

#8
04-24-2005, 09:16 PM

6bmike
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 1,605
Originally Posted by Bigwill
Quote:
Traveling without the book and/or not having multiply copies is a sin, Will.


I know, I know... .
It seems like hitting a fade using horizontal hinging is asking for trouble. Is it?
BTW, thanks, Mike
Not trouble, Will- knowledge ! Every time a machiner moves the ball location, grip, plane lines, hinge action, etc- they own another mechanism in their stroke. And that’s a good thing for TGM-ers.

innercityteacher 08-07-2012 09:24 PM
http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showt...ht=angle+hinge

Quote:
Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,431
Right Arm Practice For Swingers
Originally Posted by rchang72

Yoda, in the video, you talk about directing the lag pressure down with the #3 pressure point. This may be beating a dead horse, but how does the swinger do this with that the right hand only like you were demonstrating? Or should the swinger practice that with only their right hand?
Normally, the Pivot Loads the Swinger's Lag Pressure on the Rotated #3 Lag Pressure Point -- the first knuckle of the Right Hand. Centrifugal Force then supplies the Thrust of the Stroke, the Direct Drive of the #2 Accumulator (the Left Wristcock) through the #2 Pressure Point (the last three fingers of the Left Hand). However, that Centrifugal Thrust is sensed as Clubhead Lag Pressure and aimed by the #3 Pressure Point -- via its straight line thrust -- down the Delivery Path and toward the Plane Line.

I absolutely endorse practicing that move with the Right Arm only, first without a Club and then with one. At the Top, mentally draw a straight line from the #3 Pressure Point to the inside-aft quadrant of the Ball. Then, as your Downstroke Pivot Loads the Lag in Start Down, feel as though your Right Hand remains at the Top of the Stroke. Finally, with your Right Hip Cleared and the Lag Loaded, direct your Thrust directly down that Line and through your Aiming Point (usually the Ball). Once you've got the move down pat, practice with both Hands.
__________________
Yoda

innercityteacher 08-07-2012 09:46 PM
more research....

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=39025&highlight=angle+hinge#post3 9025

Quote:
6bmike
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 1,605
Originally Posted by EdZ
Why do you think that is so common? Lack of startup swivel?

No, I think most player feel comfortable setting the elbow into their side which to me is different then leading the elbow deep into the pivot with hands then clubhead lagging. I think Sweep release is more common. Not every shot is a delayed Trigger. This is how I see Pitch Elbow- deep, Maximum snap released.
It is not to say the elbow fixes itself to a spot in Punch- the body is turning and the hands are on path to deliver the clubhead.

I don't follow the start-up Swivel POV. What are your thoughts?

innercityteacher 08-07-2012 09:53 PM
OK, this is how I have hit 280-300 yard drives... I knew I did it just wasn't sure how.


http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showt...ht=angle+hinge

Quote:
6bmike
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 1,605
Originally Posted by jiujitsugolf
With a hitting motion on a pitch shot, should the elbow go infront of the hip and would this apply to the full swing with a wedge?
There are three elbow locations, at the side (punch) deep in front (pitch) and behind the shaft (push). A hitter would use punch or push for all types of shots. A hitters motion is a driving right arm to straight through the ball so either elbow position works.
Pitch elbow is a maximum participation late release for swingers.

Impact Fix, Angle Hinge, RFT, Full Pivot down with bicep tight making the Pivot carry the hands as deep as possible! (Paul Bertholy Master Drill in my head).

The problem is that I also nuke my ironsdoing this and my distance control is shot!

innercityteacher 08-07-2012 09:56 PM
My best rounds have come from swinging an Angle Hinge to the back of the ball, 6 o'clock with my right elbow dropping on the ball on dry ground with lots of roll. If doing that, I have to keep my left wrist from rotating!

For all course distance, I need to develop my pivot and hold that Angle Hinge in a predictable way that gives me some regular distance measurements, imho.

innercityteacher 08-07-2012 10:05 PM
I understand this...

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showt...ht=angle+hinge


Quote:
vwink
Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 60
The video I found helpful for figuring out what to do with the elbow appears as the 2nd video series, "The Preshot Routine". (the 2nd video of the series featuring Ted Fort). About 1/3 through this video, Ted demonstrates his piston-like preswing "waggle". As he thrusts his forearm forward, the elbow extends toward the middle of his stomach. Independently positioning my elbow farther forward is no longer required because the elbow ends up in the right position. (Maybe that is part of the magic of the right forearm?)

One might think that the time investment to hit 6,000 chips would not be fully rewarded by the modest effect on ones handicap of more accurate chipping. But the employment of my new forearm thrust in my full motion swings is the real reward. I can't believe how once I figured out the correct forearm thrust move for my chips, almost instantly my full motion hitting was dramatically improved. I am licking my chops, waiting for this golf season to begin because the more accurate and longer hitting I am doing on the range, must eventually translate to significantly lower scores.

innercityteacher 08-07-2012 10:15 PM
I hope to take my chips to this:

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=64372&highlight=clapping#post6437 2



Quote:
EdZ
Lynn Blake Certified Instructor

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Qingdao, China
Posts: 1,639
learn to clap on an incllined plane
To learn a solid takeaway, get into an address position without a club. Level right wrist. Right forearm flying wedge in place.

clap your hands, leaving the left hand and arm at impact. Let your right hip move 'back' (clear it)

As you make that clapping motion bigger, allow the right hand to turn so that at the 'top', you are in a karate chop 'on plane' position with the pinky side of the right hand.

practice returning both to a 'clap', as well as a 'karate chop' back to the left hand. The 'karate chop' will show you how the right shoulder moves down plane.
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"

"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"

Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2

innercityteacher 08-07-2012 10:27 PM
Something so simple that I never would have thought of!!!!


Durrr again!

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showt...light=clapping


http://youtu.be/c3C1__L5usM

http://youtu.be/vVws0CQqTDc

http://youtu.be/HYfOw_7jCTA

Quote:
Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,431
One Man's Journey
Originally Posted by fladan

I read this thread with great interest as I've struggled getting the club to "lay on the line" for years. Lynn and I have worked quite a bit on this, and during our school at Pine Tree last week, another contributor to being "under plane" in startup/backstroke came into view.

The golfer can have EA, minimal pivot (acquired motion) and still have trouble maintaining the clubshaft's alignment to the plane line; wrist conditions (Mechanical Checklist, Section 4/5, #16) also play a role. Remember the left wrist cock is a vertical motion. Go to impact fix - then cock the left wrist vertically. This gives you the wrist alignments at top (and at finish)

I found my left wrist arched as I moved from startup into backstroke. This caused the need for a compensating move at top. Life got much simpler lately when I corrected this error.

Moral to the story: Use 12-3 Mechanical checklist. The answers are there!
Great post, Dan. Just like your swing!

innercityteacher 08-08-2012 10:09 PM
Hitting a record 76!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93407)


Vertically cocking the left wrist to un-cock it and beating my club pro by 3 strokes is fun and easy to do! :happy3:

Quiet head, quiet knees, quiet feet, Angle Hinge-Impact Fix, You have to fully cock the vertical left wrist to fully un-cock it! :salut: I threw the club at the ball! I did it 46 times and then putted 30 times! :golfcart:

8 GIR on the front or within a foot on the fringe and 7 on the back 9, only missing 4 fairways.

What I did well- Quiet Head, knees and feet, Impact Fix, Angle hinge level left wrist, EA below plane, fully extended right arm feeling, fully cock the left wrist and drive PP # 3 to 6 o'clock on the ball-dead aft. Driver 2 inches inside my left heel for a soft fade, 4 inches back for a big draw! :laughing9

Putted with the Runyon technique Lynn showed me and also putted my chips when close to the fringe-both elbows at my sides so my misses were no more than a ball away within 20 feet-made 2/6 birdies from beyond 10 feet. Played most of my second shots to the middle of the green.

What I did poorly- My PW has become my 120 yard stick and my 9 iron was going 140 yards on the fly today. :( So I over-clubbed a lot of greens taking myself out of real birdie chances! Made that mistake on 6 holes today! :naughty:

Anyway, thanks Lynn, gentlemen!

http://youtu.be/vVws0CQqTDc

This was really satisfying today, as I beat our club pro by 3 shots "officially."

Last season, I played in our inter-club Gap matches winning all my matches. I also lost a tournament by a playoff hole against a +2 hcp from another club at a regional GAP match. Anyway, I shot a 77 this year the weak before team selection and still did not get selected! :mad:

And what really frosts me, was that it was like pulling Godzilla's tale to get a compliment from him! I don't understand how a club pro could be so dense and lack generosity :(

Next time, I'll beat him by 10 shots! :golf:

ICT

innercityteacher 08-09-2012 05:23 PM
So what is really Imperative?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93414)
Vertically cocking the left wrist to un-cock it and beating my club pro by 3 strokes is fun and easy to do! :happy3:

Quiet head, quiet knees, quiet feet, Angle Hinge-Impact Fix, You have to fully cock the vertical left wrist to fully un-cock it! :salut: I threw the club at the ball! I did it 46 times and then putted 30 times! :golfcart:

8 GIR on the front or within a foot on the fringe and 7 on the back 9, only missing 4 fairways.

What I did well- Quiet Head, knees and feet, Impact Fix, Angle hinge level left wrist, EA below plane, fully extended right arm feeling, fully cock the left wrist and drive PP # 3 to 6 o'clock on the ball-dead aft. Driver 2 inches inside my left heel for a soft fade, 4 inches back for a big draw! :laughing9

Putted with the Runyon technique Lynn showed me and also putted my chips when close to the fringe-both elbows at my sides so my misses were no more than a ball away within 20 feet-made 2/6 birdies from beyond 10 feet. Played most of my second shots to the middle of the green.

What I did poorly- My PW has become my 120 yard stick and my 9 iron was going 140 yards on the fly today. :( So I over-clubbed a lot of greens taking myself out of real birdie chances! Made that mistake on 6 holes today! :naughty:

Anyway, thanks Lynn, gentlemen!

http://youtu.be/vVws0CQqTDc

This was really satisfying today, as I beat our club pro by 3 shots "officially."

Last season, I played in our inter-club Gap matches winning all my matches. I also lost a tournament by a playoff hole against a +2 hcp from another club at a regional GAP match. Anyway, I shot a 77 this year the weak before team selection and still did not get selected! :mad:

And what really frosts me, was that it was like pulling Godzilla's tale to get a compliment from him! I don't understand how a club pro could be so dense and lack generosity :(

Next time, I'll beat him by 10 shots! :golf:

ICT


Quote:
Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,431
One Less Bell To Answer
Originally Posted by bts
Originally Posted by Martee
At what point do you make a decision as to what golf philosphy, instruction, method, style you are going to adopt as your mainstay?

............................
Whatever, not until I can hit one type of (whatever) shot ten in a row.

[Bold by Yoda.]
bts,

1. Start with a dead-straight, 12-inch Putt.

2. Make a complete Three-Station Motion (Address, Top and Finish).

3. Stay On Plane during that Basic Motion (Up, Back and In and Down, Out and Forward) by Tracing (Clubshaft Control) the Plane Line / Target Line with your Right Forearm and Forefinger (which senses the inertia of the Lagging Sweetspot and thus also serves as Clubhead Control).

4. Keep your Left Wrist Flat (Clubface Control) as you proceed through Impact until Both Arms are straight. In other words, Follow-Through.

5. Pick the Ball out of the Hole and repeat nine more times.

At this point, your search has ended. Ten times in a row you have used your Flat Left Wrist, Clubhead Lag Pressure Point and Straight Plane Line to demonstrate total control of the Clubface, Head and Shaft from Address to The Top to The Finish. You may now embrace The Golfing Machine for what it is:

A Complete System for a Lifetime of Better Golf.

From Impact Fix, I cock my flat left wrist up to my shoulder, the same distance and appearance as if I was RFT'ing. I drive my # 3 PP to a selected spot on the ball depending on shot shape desired to both arms straight and a full finish in balance.

My mates ask me if I get tired of being in the middle! "NOPE-middle of the hole!" :happy3: ICT

innercityteacher 08-09-2012 10:46 PM
Ok, so I'm still learning and shooting in the high 70's lol!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93419)
From Impact Fix, I cock my flat left wrist up to my shoulder, the same distance and appearance as if I was RFT'ing. I drive my # 3 PP to a selected spot on the ball depending on shot shape desired to both arms straight and a full finish in balance.

My mates ask me if I get tired of being in the middle! "NOPE-middle of the hole!" :happy3: ICT

YODA KNOWS ! :salut:

[quote][color="Navy"][b]
Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,431
Fooling Mother Nature
Originally Posted by YodasLuke
Horizontal hinging has such a different rhythm, I'd never be able to apply it in a hit. I was originally taught to be the opposite of that before I met Yoda. I was taught to be a swinger with angled hinging. It had terrible consequences.

[Bold by Yoda.]
Horizontal Hinging -- the Vertical-to-the-Ground Motion of the Flat Left Wrist and its consequent Closing Only Motion of the Clubface -- is the natural consequence of Centrifugal Force. Swingers should remember this and not try to 'fight City Hall' unless absolutely necessary.

It is not just a matter of "Oh, I did Horizontal Hinging on that one, now I'll do Angled Hinging on this one." According to taped lecture of the late Homer Kelley, a golf club moving at 100 MPH generates 107 pounds of Centrifugal Pull during the Release Interval. And that Pull is doing everything it possibly can to align the Clubface -- indeed, the entire Primary Lever Assembly (Left Arm and Club) -- for Horizontal Hinging. Attempting to override Centrifugal Force and make the Club do one thing when it wants to do another, is the recipe for inconsistency -- if not disaster -- on the links.

The same is true of the simultaneous Close-and-Layback of Angled Hinging. This Vertical-to-the-Plane Motion of the Flat Left Wrist and Clubface is the natural consequence of the Drive-out of Muscular Thrust. Attempting to make the Clubface Close Only (Horizontal Hinging) when the Driving Thrust is making it Lay Back is also to thumb one's nose at the Laws of Force and Motion. You can get away with such arrogance some of the time, but sooner or later you will learn the hard way...

It's not nice to fool Mother Nature!
__________________
Yoda

innercityteacher 08-10-2012 12:11 AM
Alignment issues
 
[quote=innercityteacher;93424]YODA KNOWS ! :salut:

Quote:
[color="Navy"][b]
Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,431
Fooling Mother Nature
Originally Posted by YodasLuke
Horizontal hinging has such a different rhythm, I'd never be able to apply it in a hit. I was originally taught to be the opposite of that before I met Yoda. I was taught to be a swinger with angled hinging. It had terrible consequences.

[Bold by Yoda.]
Horizontal Hinging -- the Vertical-to-the-Ground Motion of the Flat Left Wrist and its consequent Closing Only Motion of the Clubface -- is the natural consequence of Centrifugal Force. Swingers should remember this and not try to 'fight City Hall' unless absolutely necessary.

It is not just a matter of "Oh, I did Horizontal Hinging on that one, now I'll do Angled Hinging on this one." According to taped lecture of the late Homer Kelley, a golf club moving at 100 MPH generates 107 pounds of Centrifugal Pull during the Release Interval. And that Pull is doing everything it possibly can to align the Clubface -- indeed, the entire Primary Lever Assembly (Left Arm and Club) -- for Horizontal Hinging. Attempting to override Centrifugal Force and make the Club do one thing when it wants to do another, is the recipe for inconsistency -- if not disaster -- on the links.

The same is true of the simultaneous Close-and-Layback of Angled Hinging. This Vertical-to-the-Plane Motion of the Flat Left Wrist and Clubface is the natural consequence of the Drive-out of Muscular Thrust. Attempting to make the Clubface Close Only (Horizontal Hinging) when the Driving Thrust is making it Lay Back is also to thumb one's nose at the Laws of Force and Motion. You can get away with such arrogance some of the time, but sooner or later you will learn the hard way...

It's not nice to fool Mother Nature!
__________________
Yoda



Quote:
YodasLuke
Lynn Blake Certified Master Instructor

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 1,314
Originally Posted by MizunoJoe
"A draw is simple enough if the clubface is closed in the grip, and the machine is adjusted to the right."

You can't draw the ball with a closed clubface, which can only contact the outside of the ball. You are describing a pull hook with respect to the adjusted machine. The "prior" aspect of this procedure does not insure it's "precision". I can Horizontally Hinge more precisely than "guesstimate" how much to close both the clubface and stance.
Sure you can...(infinite doubt inserted here)

If you had read the previous post, you would have seen that the clubface was square to the target, not closed to it. The clubface is closed to the grip but not to the target. Additionally, the club would have to be swung off plane to hit the outside quadrant of the ball with the machine aligned to the right. With this body line, the inside quadrant is the only part of the ball that could possibly be struck, for those of us that don't like plane shifts.
__________________
Yoda knows...and he taught me!

For those less fortunate, Swinging is an option.


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