Thanks Mr. Yoda.

Respectfully.

Thanks Mr. Yoda. I guess I have to buy the book to look it up, huh? :)

Respectfully.

Flat but not visually flat
 

Thanks Yoda

You mention Rhythm something Ive been thinking a lot about lately. How tuff it is to spell etc. Im coming to the conclusion that its often the difference between good and bad shots for the accomplished golfer (on down).... 'Course it helps if you cock and uncock on plane ...which is really easy to get wrong conceptually and practically. I did, but not anymore. " Im sending bullets out there" ever since I got rid of any Horizontal Left Hand Motion. I wish it was spring, dangit. I keep going out into the backyard to feel it and the Lag it encourages in my swing ....man it feels good. Hope it doesn't snow this week.

Im talking Homer's Rhythm of course. Bucks right , say what you will but Homer was a genius. A bit of nut bar sure but I like that in my geniuses.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

All,

Sorry, but what really does Rhythm refer to? Proper sequencing of release of pa2 then pa3? The timing of not only sequencing, but also the time gap between them, or none of it?

Respectfully.

Book Mart
 

http://www.thegolfingmachine.com/boo...olfing-machine

Tell'em Yoda sent you.

:)

Mr. Yoda,

By the way, you said secret to golf is the lag. I think you are ULTIMATELY referring to maximum pa3 angle. It makes it easier to have lag (come to think of it, it's "built-in" lag.. :)), and ensures it even if you've already released pa2 ( which to my mind you can do nothing about anyway..). What do you think of my statements? How true, or false, or delusional are they? Lol

Respectfully.

Why is it that #3 is so taken for granted in TGM? I think, please correct me if I'm wrong, TGM is so into #2.

Why is it that #3 CANNOT, in TGM, be ahead or the Main Power Package together with #4?

Aside from the Audio tapes mentioned by OBLeft in the Hogan 24 Components thread I put up, is there any other rationale for this?

Most of the clubhead speed is provided by #2, #3 is mainly a delivery mechanism, which is why the emphasis is on #2. A #4 & #3 two barrel pattern isn't realistic, because if you load #4, the right elbow bends, cocking the left wrist, adding #2.

Joe, does a hitter...
 

Choose between firing # 2 and #3 to effect Hinge selection? :eh:


ICT

MJ,

I agree with that if we are not turning or pivoting. But while we are turning/rotating our bodies towards the target, would dumping #2 add to the speed of the turning pivot?

And to me, it will just add inconsistency because you are delivering the Sweetspot "vertically/downwards/slicey" rather than "directly head-on" as when you deliver it thru #3.

Imagine yourself already into releasing #4 (your pivoting already). During pivoting, would you rather "axe" the Sweetspot into the ball, or would you rather "slap" Sweetpsot into the ball face-on?

Clubhead Speed will be most efficiently attained by Centripetal Force, and that is, in a golf swing, the Pivoting (body) and the Rolling (L hand).

To illustrate, lets take an Ice Skater for example. When he/she is turning with another Ice Skater, would the 2nd Skater (the farther one) move faster if the 1st Skater dumps the 2nd Skater to the ground vertically, or if the 1st Skater throws or pulls the 2nd Skater to the target horizontally?

It's the pivot that speeds up the clubhead by dumping #2 via #4.

There is no rather. Throwout is the only legitimate way to deliver the sweetspot to the ball. Without it, you would have to shorten the left arm or fall backwards to make contact!

Rolling the left hand doesn't speed up the sweetspot, it increases power by effecting Hor Hinging, which eliminates the layback component of Angled Hinging, giving better compression.

Brianid I suspect u still have not bought the book. The force we rely on as a swinger is not centripetal but rather centrifugal force that powers the golf swing. If u read the book u will find that the sequence is always 4,2,3 for the swinger the sequence can be somewhat overlapped but the order cannot change it MUST be 4,2,3 not because thts what U ought to do but because it is the only way. There is no secret to be uncovered here you will not find an alternative procedure unless it is horribly off plane, or horribly manipulated.

Physics crash course for swingers:

If you drag load and use extencior action, basically all of the swing power will be channeled through left arm.

Towards impact, the left arm will deliver a big portion of centripetal force - and a small portion of something else. The REAL force is what it is, but when you look at it in physics it helps to decompose it into two parts. Centripetal is the first part and it doesn't produce swing speed. It only keeps the club head in orbit. But if you (still) move the shoulder around the spine, you are always pulling towards a spot that stays in front of the swing center. And then you are also producing a second part. That second part is also a LINEAR force component to the pulling. And that component produces swing speed. The key for the swinger's swing production of swing speed is to always pull towards a point that is forward of the swing center. The physics is quite similar for the hitter, except that (s)he pushes towards a spot that is forward of the swing center.

Centrifugal force: Homer defined this as club head inertia, basically and Newton agrees with Homer here. CF produces the throw-out or the release. This release will slow down the hands - perhaps even reverse their motion - unless the golfer resist it. It is this resistance that produces swing speed during the release interval.

Bottom line: If the club head feels really heavy you're producing swing speed. Homer also spoke of the heavy "hit". Which literally means acceleration all the way to impact. The man knew what he was talking about....

brianid...

just like the release of the #3 accumulator cannot precede the release of #2, and #4 accumulators, your critiques of the golfing machine cannot precede a thorough understanding of it. There is NO SUBSTITUTE for buying The Golfing Machine and reading it, in order to understand it.

Hmmmm....great posts guys...I think I am understanding these better...thanks for the patience and time..

Yeah...my feeling of releasing #3 is I think just to make sure the necessary Hinge Motion of the L wrist happens...I get it now...it is still #4 that pulls everything...

Yeah, it is the Pivot that speeds up the clubhead...the #4...which then uncocks #2...yeah, doesn't have to uncock it intentionally, it just happens Auto, but never Non-Auto...hmmm....

I actually bought the book, haven't read all of it though...just Chapter 10...lol and the introduction part...Hope to have time to look thru it all...

Thanks for the help All...

By the way, not here just to critique at all...just want to learn...but yeah, should read it all first...will try find time...

But All, what is your thoughts about big #3 angle at Address and Impact when L wrist is fully uncocked already? To my mind, it doesn't affect #2 and its release at all. The cock to uncock travel of the L wrist doesn't change, doesn't it? So, Clubhead Speed won't be affected. However, Clubface Control is much easier...you can Horiz Hinge the Face as much as you can and still end up like Angle Hinging it... And I don't have to deal with timing that Snap Release...I can Release the hell out of it as soon as I finish the Start Down and Drag Loading... Thoughts?

whered that come from:salut: nice

Talking lag pressures with a scientist
 

Nice post Bernt.

My apologies for taking the thread in a different course but you raise a subject of great interest for me.

Re the above : Would I be correct in thinking that to sustain the amount of lag pressure , inertia as sensed in the hands one must sustain the hands rate of acceleration? Or is there more to the story. Mass of club for instance? Anything else?

Can you sustain the amount of lag pressure at the #3 pp after lever extension? All the way to impact? Past impact? Past low point? Doesn't impact itself create a spike in lag pressure as the ball and turf place drag upon the club?

I use lag pressure as a tool but it is fleeting. Its sort of like trying to hold water in your hands . Id like to understand it better. Why it leaks away? When it must leave entirely etc.

Thanks for this.

Brianid you are correct in your analysis that more #3 accumulator will limit the snap release. U are suggesting to power your golf swing with maximum #3 accumulator. Any player who is gripping the club in the fingers of the left hand and is addressing the ball on the elbow plane is using maximum #3 accumulator anything beyond that and it will be in the form of left wrist cock and the right forearm will not be able to reach the plane.

I think it can be done with the butt of the club under the palm pad. Just pull the other end of the club's grip and put it more towards the palm as well instead of over the index finger's 2nd joint (next to big knuckle joint).

You don't need to increase hands speed. I don't think you can either, unless you've gone very easy before the release. The release interval is the overdrive gear in the golf swing. Almost an eccentric quality to the muscle work in the upper body if the swing is still powered from ground up. Also, you've got some inertia that works with your hands - club shaft, hands, arms, pivot - all of these are up to speed already and suddenly the lag pressure increases dramatically.

I bet one of the reasons that heavier shafts gives lower ball flight is that it adds inertia to the grip end of the club...

I bet the lag pressure (and therefore also, the golfers linear force) maxes when the overtaking rate is at the highest during the release interval.

I don't think you can sustain max lag pressure at impact, but that you can sustain some lag pressure. How much depends on machine alignment. More #3 accumulator means less release before impact and more impact lag pressure. More #2 release before impact means more swing speed, perhaps, but less lag pressure at impact.

It's a bit like hitting the ball in the middle of the release as opposed to hitting it at the end of the release.

Past impact: I bet you can increase swing speed again. Past low point: Dunno. The only accumulator that can still do something positive is #4 and pulling with left shoulder.

Pivot driven rope handling towards impact will generate a lot of force. Max force when hands are in front of left shoulder. The left shoulder is always pulling from a point that is ahead of the swing center. Linear force as long as the left shoulder is moving. Doesn't even matter where it is moving as long as it doesn't stall or doesn't go in reverse.

#4 is a power house if you are in balance to swing from the feet through impact and if turn hands and shoulders together through the ball. It's like a one-armed dead lift, only a lot stronger since you don't need to pick it up from the ground, but can pull from your strongest position. If you set yourself up for utilizing it to its max it will dwarf any pressure you can produce with your right side. Left leg versus right arm, basically.

I think you're right about the spike in lag pressure from ball contact (and turf drag). Common wisdom says that the impact interval is over before the golfer can react to it but I am not convinced. Traditional shaft flexing (some 250-300 cpm) will be way too slow, and that means that you can't make a difference with pp#3 - at least not in the "ice hockey" way. But a longitudinal shock (axial force in mechanics) will reach the hands in less than half the impact interval, and this shock can be acted upon by pulling from the left. And of course any pushing from the right (pp#1 & #3) will tighten the rope even further! I'm theorizing here and I may be wrong, but I'll keep my theory until someone looks at the axial shaft forces during the impact interval and not the shaft bending and torquing.

Lag pressure doesn't leak away in my swing before impact. At least not when I'm doing what I'm trying to do ;-). But I'm not monitoring it only from the right side... I am more concerned with feeling inertia in the left hand.

I think key is to minimize, or at least reduce accumulator #4 lag at the top, power the hands more by push-pulling from the shoulders, and sustain this pivot power as opposed to releasing arms and club with pp@4 push. A full #4 release will create a lot of swing speed initially but the turning shoulders will not have as much leverage later...

Monitor and sustain lag pressure from pulling left shoulder and the tension in the muscles inovolved in producing it (left side of back). Elbow plane through impact is IMO an enabler in sustaining lag pressure better through impact.

Basically swing hands with shoulders and swing club with hands.... all the way. Flat shaft angle to get the shoulders and club as well aligned as possible. I think Hogan did something like this.

Or go with TSP and do whatever Yoda does. He seems to sustain it pretty well too!

Thanks for this Bernt . Gotta do some thinking.... it aint easy.

AGAIN, you will not be able to reach the plane with your right forearm.

Funny illustrations
 

B, I started slightly closing my club-face on my drives last week and Hit some weird Angle Hinge draws! :rolleyes:

The drives went out like a very satisfying draw which was cool past the trees but a couple of them actually faded at the end of their flight! :think:

I suppose that the Angle Hinge was stronger in my motion than the slightly closed club face. I had a flash of what Bubba Watson must feel like on a daily basis!:dance: :rolleyes:

ICT

have you tried swinging ict?

Lynn showed me but...
 

Whip, with my artificial hip, 11 hip operations, shorter front leg and non-athletic build, I figured I would zero-out the Pivot so I can walk a little better when I'm done with the round and Hitting has really helped. Last week, I shot an 86 having been on line all day but short by 10 or 15 yards using a stiffer shaft in newer Titleist ZB's, and a 77 two weeks earlier. This weekend I'll add two clubs and Hit and get a senior shaft in the clubs after my round unless I am missing something obvious you'd like to mention. :rolleyes:

ICT

I would have to see your motion on film to asses what your best options are. Realize though that the hit requires some definite pivoting as well although with a preturned hip it can be easier if you'd like u can pm me a YouTube link of your swing if u have one. You can also equally swing from a preturned hip position and only go to top, and swing quite well perhaps better than your hit procedure at the moment not sure.

Thanks.
 

Will investigate! Thanks!

ICT

Pre-turned hip for Swingers and Hitters!
 

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showt...+hip#post56204


Very helpful insight, Whip!

# 3 is easier pre-turning back hip!
 

Thanks Whip and LBG!
Cross-line and pre-turned hips adds stability and speed to Hitting and Swinging. Very easy to use Extensor Action for both and then with a stationary head both Hits and Swings jump!

Trajectory is a little flatter and distances are a bit better but I realized my ZB's are an inch shorter than my clones and stiffer. Target line is dead on in both! #3 PP or # 1 really accelerates with the slightest invitation.

ICT