A contraversial post
 

I want to do a video on this because its a difficult to grasp part of my findings but I think I need a textual answer to this also.

When I said that all strokes roll to the plane, thats not entirely true.... I just said it to basically not enter into a whole maze of debate which I will unleash on you now....:laughing9. Im not opening two cans of worms at once... Another reason I stated it was because I wanted to bring to your attention the dynamic nature of wrist conditions....

I wanna talk about the roll of the hands through impact.

With the onplane flail of 2K there seems to be some problems with transitioning into a vertical flail as described in 2K as you go into followthrough because of the release point on the downstroke and how the wrist conditions dynamically adapt with the rolling of the left hand in accordance to the precise location to the orbit around the left wrist. You see the problem is if you use the vertical flail phylosophy is that it disrupts the rate the clubhead orbits around the left hand because in a vertical flail model the wristroll has to work simultaneously with any wristcock motion. You can't have the rate of the clubhead around your left wrist is going at one rate and then another....

Thats when it hit me when I asked what if I took a conception from 1-L too literally. Lets say the accumulator 3 plane left club and hand where only mean't to be inline at impact then from this inline condition (see standard flail 2-K) preform a hinge action. So you would have a designated place for your hand into come into impact to a point that would mirror the vertical flail at impact vertical to the ground for all strokes but then doing different things from that point.... You see that would change everything - if the inline condition wasn't at the lowest point of the orbit (in relation to its center and not the lowest point to the ground plane - Mike O) directly under the left shoulder where all hinge actions would go to the same point like in the 1-L model.

Where the flail comes inline to that point of impact you then on the second half part of this orbit you can produce a hinge motion using the last remaining two wrist conditions wristcock and wristbend with the left wrist and hand to keep the club onplane. The left wrist and hand are still going to be vertical to their associted plane however however the rate of the clubhead around the left wrist has not changed. This is going to give different types of 'followthroughs' in the PGA manner of the word just like Tiger when he's trying to shape particular shots. Providing you use two axis of rotation around a point you can a use lever like a golf club inside any location within a spherical shape and thus using these two motions keep the club onplane whilst the third is 'locked' its relationship to the associated plane of the hinge action.

So after impact wristbend ?????? - wow this is fun and contraversial....lol

Your alternative is you can also keep your swivel motion rate either side to the flail mirroring the vertical flail at impact point but this will produce only a singular hinge motion.... a closing motion of the clubface thats speed is entirely determined by release point of the number 3 accumulator so you better have alot of trust to physics to produce the same result over and over which I believe and correct me if I am wrong - is what Ben Doyle tries to do in his model by means of regulating the roll by always going to maximum trigger delay.... however the left arm on the otherside when it bends after followthrough (GM definition) will oppose the inclined plane exactly the same when preforming a hinge action like I said in the videos.

Correct me if I am wrong - didn't Homer say a slightly arched wrist was good protection against a bent left wrist at impact?

I said inline at impact remember.... im talking about the dynamic wrist motions occuring after impact.... in relation to the rate that the clubhead is going around the left hand onplane.... whilst the ball is carried on the clubface....

Isn't that release swivel?.On- plane re -cocking of a flat left wrist.!

Hinge action is 'in effect' from impact to follow through (both arms straight).

'finish' swivel is from follow through to the finish.

Swivel - it is almost surreal.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=v7syEPDKm_U

Understand EDZ,I was referring to Matthews last post ,last paragraph:salut:

But we are not interested in "relative to the ground"-only the selected plane?

Swivel
 

Oh my!!!!! Can't remember ever seeing a finish swivel that is so "definite".
Talk about pre-programmed into the computer!

Nice find.

I have a question about Sean O' Hair's hinge action. Just before the followthrough is complete (arms both fully extended) his left wrist swivels around to the left in an abrupt horizontal hinging-type action. This hinging action doesn't seem to occur as a result of a hinge action at shoulder socket level or body torso turning level. Is this abrupt left wrist rolling action normal and/or desirable?

Secondly, I note that he doesn't fold his left elbow after the followthrough, and I thought that a standard finish swivel action requires more folding/bending of the left elbow. Is that assumption incorrect?

Jeff.

call your girlfriend. get that out of the way. put down the cigarette. put down the guitar. turn on the lights. get to work on this thread.

I agree - he seems to be executing hinge as a swivel action(radius and ulna) rather than a pivot or orbiting arms motion.... and I think that is why he does not fold the left arm as one might expect in swivel motion...maybe it would feel too closed for him after his hinge was a swivel motion...

Remember Sequence Release is a DESCRIPTION . . . I don't think it should necessarily be your PROCEDURE . . .

I thought you were still using the METH? When did you free yourself of the habit?

Strictly in distribution now . . .

Fortunately I am going to Philippines tommorow.

Unfortunately I won't be able to put more time into this thread until I come back... in 2 weeks :)

Travel Mercies
 

Thanks for your efforts in this thread, Mathew. Have a safe trip!

:salut:

I was talking hinge action... :confused1 and when you say "description" do you mean that you think that is is a feel rather than what occurs...?

Not going to be book-literalist or anything...just wondering!:golf:

No I think it is a description of what DOES IN FACT HAPPEN . . . . BUT just because that is what happens . . . that doesn't mean it should be YOUR PROCEDURE. e.g. I first uncock then I roll then I do my hinging . . .

Word!

mathew, did you ever finish this thread?

Great Stuff
 

This is great Mathew - Thanks, I'm sure it will enlighten my journey in the realm of TGM - I do wake up with the book in my face....!
Muchly appreciated

yoda, what is your thought on what matthew has been saying about the wrists in a sequenced release.

it is time for the video. no, it is past time for the video. let's see the video.

I know you have followed with keen interest however between spending time with my girlfriend, work, learning another language, doing golf research, family and daily life stuff means its hard to get the time.

However the answers are in all the posts I have written. Its just basically the exact same as the hinge action concept of the golfing machine just applied around 3 dimensional wrist conditions.

2 axis of rotation can move the secondary lever assembly anywhere inside a sphere from its point of rotation - left wrist center - and maintaining one axis with a relation to a plane means the other two can keep the club on plane.

Very soon, ill be embarking upon a new line of study on the golf stroke and other misc stuff and will be taking time away from the forum.