I'm seeing that too! Makes sense to me . . . seems to be pretty machine-like too. We are able to talk about the joints of the wrists and club moving in the appropriate plane with regards to the Flying Wedges. It seems pretty logical that Flying Wedge Assemblies would have a relationship to the spine as well, particularly with the bend at the hips and Axis Tilt.

BUT what the hell is a TETHER? I know that Tether Locklear has pretty good alignments . . .

Tether/Tetherball
 

My deep fried, battered, little nugget


According to Noah Webster....

Tether:def. N and V 1.) a rope, chain, or the like by which an animal is fastens to a fixed object as to limits its range of movement. 2.) The utmost length to which one can go in action. 3.) To fasten or confine with or as if with a tether

Tether Ball: def. n. 1.) a game in which two players hit a ball attached to a post, the object being coiled around the post

TGM Glossary:

Pivot Center- Example/Tether Ball Pole (page 236)

Read and Reread

brains and eggs...

:cool:

glad you guys are starting to see the forest from the trees...

Let's keep it up!!

I'm learning there are many paths through the forest, of which many bring you to the clearing...eureka...


Dangerous seas?

Is Fire Dangerous???

Let's ask our dear friend...Fire Marshall...Bill Burns...

So you come across a fire...and ...it's outta control....let me tell you somethin .....BOOM!!!...It's dangerous

But when it's under control... kiddies.....Fire can be your friend ...It has a tons of Versatility and Uses....Or put another way .....A Ton of Variations!!!

So..until the next time ... you can get close ...but not too close..or you'll get burnt

AS

Mac Hitting
 

There used to be a post on Manzella's website of Mac hitting, but I can't find it now otherwise I could figure this out myself.

When Mac does hitting does his right forearm look like it's teether around the spine as well???
Can't this be affected by how he sets up at address to hit?

Man I really wish I had printed off those pics of Mac hitting they'd be really useful.

Sorting Through the Instructor's Textbook!

B-Ray

Skywalker~

For me understanding the shoulders as in Basic Plane Angles/Clubshaft Control and Body Control/Shoulder Turn was an effort and 7-13 SHOULDER TURN left an impression.

Although this tread may be "Advanced" concepts, considering it is posted in Basics, what is the significance of the TSP in the O'Grady analysis ?

* Mac does not reach the preselected downstroke clubshaft plane in the turn back..
* PP3 does not trace the TSP in the move down.
* Less clear from the photos, but it is questionable if the right shoulder traces the TSP in the move down.

DRW

You bring up nice points...

However.....Mac is not using the Straight Line delivery path and Zero Shift...With all due respect....He's not even using the Single Shift...

He uses a Top Arc/Angle Line for this particular shot requires a Double Shift back down to the Elbow Plane...

He started on the Hands Only Plane...I doubt this is his pre-selected downstroke plane...

You're right the Shoulder doesn't move down the Turned Shoulder....Why?

The right Shoulder is Turning on the Rotated Shoulder Turn which is at Right angles to his Spine...That being said.... the flatter planes such as the...Elbow and Hands OnlyPlanes... the Shoulder may move on a path that is "Parallel" to the Plane Angle rather than the recommended ON Plane Procedure which provides support to the Hands and the Club....

Checkout the stripes in his shirt in Frame #7...Not on-plane but....Parallel to the Elbow Plane?

This is another reason why Mac ..sets-up and has the amounts of #3 Accumulator, Waist Bend and Knee Bend....

You don't have to use the recommended pattern in Chapter 12 to be a real player...But I recommend you learn Chapter 12 before you customize it...

BTW...noticed he missed Qualifying School again....There's more to the game than a great swing and striking it pure.....Hmmmmm


Back to the pics....

The nuts and bolts are represented by frames #5,#6,#7


The significance ....is you can locate a Turned Shoulder Plane with a Rotated Shoulder Turn ...You don't need to be Standard and you don't HAVE to set-up on the Turned Shoulder unless you're lookin for a Zero Shift...I bet you asking why would he not use a zero shift...Well maybe his intentions are not to hit a straight ball? Perhaps he enjoys a stroke pattern that allows a little versatility? Rather than the "Uncompensated" recommendation in Chapter 12.

<<I bet you asking why would he not use a zero shift>>

No, it is not a requirement. I just wanted to know what benefit it is to locate the TSP if he was not doing anything with it and it appeared to me that he wasn't.

BTW, is there something about entering impact on the elbow plane that improves "ball striking?" I believe this is also reflected with Trevino and Ben teaches a through the waist plane.

DRW

Has he not located the Turned Shoulder Plane with both the Club and his hands in Frame #4???...Perhaps I'm not reading your point correctly!!!! He just locates the Turned Shoulder Plane as a result of over-lengthening his stroke via a double shift...If he hits Cut shots I've seen him use Single Shift...rather than the pics posted here...I'll try to post some different pics of him using a different procedure....For Comparison!!!

I think the primary benefit is Maximum participation and Range of Motion of the Power Package Components are utlized which gives perhaps better performance characteristics of the other Plane Angles and their Variations...

Brandle Chamblee made an interesting point the other night on TGC. He suggest that swinging on a single plane was not advisable. He was talking about that Hardy dude's version of single plane which based on the Yellow Book ain't single plane but whatever. Anyway the point he was making was this . . .

If you swing in a single plane with no Shift, it will be physically difficult to trace the plane precisely everytime particularly in the heat of competition. So he advised that a Plane Shift was a good thing becaused if you know you are going to shift planes (over or under) everytime then your resulting ball flight will be more predictible. Examples Lee Buck push cut, Bruce Leaky pull cut, etc. Where as if you do not shift planes then you could be a little under or a little over resulting in a unpredictible ball flight.

Made some sense to me . . .

Any takers?

Heresy
 

Deep Fried and Battered...


Plane Shifts...Naughty language....

However...I might agree with your point...wholeheartedly...perhaps?

AS

Shifts
 

12 Piece,

It does sort of make sense. I've always fretted about what I understand is my "double-shift to the elbow plane" (a little like Sergio's old move). One of the best things I did was have Brian M look at a video of my swing. After he told me to not worry about the double-shift I got back to just "swinging" and not constantly fiddling with trying to eliminate that shift. My ball-strking has been really good the last few months and I don't spend all my practice time trying to eliminate what seems to be my natural motion. That equates to more short game time and I feel like I'm playing to my zero handicap again.

I still think there is more precision to be had in my swing, but it doesn't consume me like it used to.

My thinking would be that assuming one has a properly educated set of hands . . . may be a Plane Shift can be a good thing. If you know that you are gonna be "under" everytime, things would be a bit easier to predict. You could be more "under" sometimes but at least you know it's some degree of "under" EVERYTIME.

This is all assuming effective Clubface control via apporpriate Hinge Action.

Exactly. I know that I'm going to be "under" some 99% of the time (verrrrry rarely do I get "over"), so there's predictability in that part of the downswing motion. My hands have gotten much more educated over the last couple of years which is key as you stated. Over-acceleration and/or "adding" are my primary concerns now. If you're a swinger I think even if you're "under" it some, as long as you don't interfere with CF (and you have rhythm), your result will be "negotiable".

Preachin to the Choir
 

And the Choir said.......................Amen

Skywalker...
 

Couldn't help but notice that AS's student successfully made it through Stage Two of PGA Tour Qualifying...way to go El and D.O.!

EC

Thanx ...but he did it ...on his own...

I'm very happy and relieved for him....

1 out of 5 horses made it to the Derby(Final Stage)....

3 others made it to the Paddock (through first stage)

EC...hope things are well !

Under?
 

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????

Under? Under Plane? You would not want to get much UNDER PLANE, or you will tend to get FAT SHOTS, PUSHS, AND HOOKS.

If you do it just right, you might could play a sweeping draw.

A simple remedy for the players who are under a little...Play from an Open Stance Line and play inside out cut shots....

Fred Couples...Lee Buck

If you're two much under check to make sure you do not have too much axis tilt, lateral bending of the upper spine, "perverted pitch", etc...

Masters Degree in Degrees
 

How much "open" Pops? Horizontal or Angled Hinge Action? Cross-Line procedure?

Lagster,

The "under" portion of my swing is primarily from transition to waist high where it tends to get more on-plane approaching impact. When I over-accelerate or "add" is when things get a little dicey - normally resulting in a push or a block. If I stay relaxed, I think the "un-interfered with" CF helps things get properly aligned into impact. Brian also suggested using a rolled up towel placed lengthwise just inside the target line (sort of a reverse "Inside Approach" training aid), to help get the feeling of not being too inside/under approaching impact.

Degrees?..That's too technical!!!

How about...Slight, Moderate, and Excessive...

Will they work?

:D

Your comment from an earlier post "not on-plane but...Parallel to the Elbow Plane" I think is sufficient for me at this time. I can't however read much encouragement for turning off plane in Mr. Kelley's 10-13-B/C comments. Of course, there is ample support among prominent instructors and players for a shoulder turn that extends beyond the plane line and for different combinations of up and down shaft planes. It would be interesting to know if Mac reaches the TSP by default or intent.... does he think in terms of having the lead arm and shaft at the top on/parallel to the plane the shoulderS turn on, or on "reaching the TSP."

DRW

Mac likes to have the left arm on the same plane as the shoulder plane...in his words....Does this mean Turned Shoulder Plane? It does mean in his quantitative analysis for example ...that if the Shoulder Plane is 40-45 degrees to the ground...he would prefer the Left Arm to be the same....or whatever the intended model is because the #'s are different for different shot shapes and intentions....of which I'm not going to go into detail because it's way to technical for this arena.