Well, Greg uses a Lagging Clubhead Take-away LCT. He "Swings" the Club to the Top. "There is no Up in the Backswing" he said. So I assume that he doesn't "push" the Club to the Top as the Right Forearm Takeaway has you do.

Uh - oh. The Right Forearm Take-away (RFT) causes Extensor Action (EA) by engaging the Right Triceps Muscle during the Backstroke. With The Right Forearm Take-away, there is no need for additional EA.

The Right Forearm Take-Away is A Procedure which takes the Club, Hands, Arms and Shoulders, from "Address to the Top of the backstroke". ((It's not just for the the Takeaway interval.)) :doh:

It's the TGM preferred procedure because it engages the "Magic of the Right Forearm" so that the Right Wrist can remain Level while the Left Wrist Cocks. It's the only way to do so. TGM secret #23. Pass it on.

Couple of things:

Doesnt the Right Forearm Takeaway ...pull the club......hence the lagging condition of the clubhead during the lagging takeaway?

Also isnt EA a separate and distinct force applied to the Left Arm and Club, a non accelerating force given thats its along the line of the left arm. A stretching out of the left arm and club in line. Sorta like an artificial CF if you will. As such cant the right forearm stretch the left arm at the #1 or the the left arm and club at the #3 (less common) and accelerate the club during RFT as two distinct actions?

Doesn't the Right Forearm Takeaway ...pull the club......hence the lagging condition of the clubhead during the lagging takeaway?

Section 4/5 – Backstroke ensures that the Right Forearm Takeaway is a Pushing Action. Note also that #18 is Top. Start Up comes before Takeaway.
14. Extensor Action
15. Start Up – Line
16. Start Up – L/R Wrist Conditions
17. Right Forearm Takeaway


Also isn't EA a separate and distinct force applied to the Left Arm and Club, a non accelerating force given that its along the line of the left arm. A stretching out of the left arm and club in line. Sorta like an artificial CF if you will. As such can't the right forearm stretch the left arm at the #1 or the the left arm and club at the #3 (less common) and accelerate the club during RFT as two distinct actions?

Yes. EA is the application of Force using Right Triceps muscle to Stretch the Left Arm. Extensor Force can be applied in different ways. With the Right Forearm Takeaway, the two middle fingers of the Right Hand simultaneously grip the Shaft and squeeze pressure on the Left Thumb.

Stretching the Left Arm through the #3 PP or tightly gripping the shaft with the #3 PP while using Extensor Force are Specialty Procedures.

Extensor Action: a great Homer Kelley Invention. One thing that's very clear, is that once you know, understand and use Extensor Force, you CAN'T Swing a Club any other way again. It would be like closing a bi-fold door without a track.

I'd like the court to recognize that the honourable D, has added some wordage that doesnt exist within my 6th edition of the book.

Please, strike from the record everything after "Backstroke"...... commencing with "ensure that the ..." This is a horrible mis representation of Homers actual text . I can only assume for his own benefit, to make a point. Shame. The court can only wonder where else this sort of thing has happened in the past!

I suggest a total audit of all Daryls previous posts and I elect Mike O. and Bucket as co auditors.

Let it be so.


D, how can the right arm push on the way back when its on the front of the club? Seems like a pull to me.

Is it possible that both answers (push and pull) are reasonable? It seems as if the resultant below plane force of the right arm seeking to remain straight is partially based on the position of r/h attachment. A weaker (right index finger knuckle on top of shaft) right hand attachment seems to create a clear "push" or longitudinal stretching of left arm (through pp#1)and/or entire primary lever (through pp#1+3). A stronger right hand seems to both stretch "push" (longitudinally)and "pull" (laterally). Is this, perhaps, the "extensor action takeaway" (10-19-0) referred to in TGM as it applies to lag loading? TGM suggests that a swinger can lag load with EA takeaway "and/or" the "bending right wrist". Float loading (hit or swing) probably still conforms to these guidelines given that there is a blending of moves which combines assembly and lag loading (and release for that matter)....which really all starts at takeaway. The float loader who intends to HIT will need to blend in some EA for structure....but I would think he would be wary of establishing the "pushing" forces of EA because...its difficult to blend in a "pre assembled" lever. I would tend to think that OB Left is on to something with the "pulling" forces of EA being phased in early as he drags the club with his right hand (if I understood this correctly). But I think they inevitably become pushing EA forces as "we hold the plane up" at the top). I wonder if Gregg's top position dictates a "hitting" action. My gut tells me that a float loader who hits still needs to rely on a significant degree of CF and knows that spinning hips can offset structural deficiencies that remain from his "lazy" move leading up to impact.

You're watchful and tough, however I wasn't "Quoting". I was "explaining".

"D, how can the right arm push on the way back when its on the front of the club? Seems like a pull to me."

When I try to Straighten my Right Arm with Triceps muscle, I call it "Push".

The "L" Word
 

I'll add a third perspective: Lift . . .

As Daryl has stated, when the right triceps is active, it pushes and gives width to the Stroke. As O.B. has stated, this Extensor Action pulls on the left arm, stretching it and likewise providing structure to the Stroke.

But, this pushing/pulling Action (Non-Accelerating Thrust / 6-C-0 #2) does not move the Left Arm. For that to happen, the right arm and its right elbow action (bending and straightening) must lift (and lower) the left (7-3). This is an On Plane Action, of course, but it is nevertheless a lift.

Otherwise, even when structured, the left arm and club (Primary Lever Assembly) will be simply drug around the body (the "disruptive Shoulder Turn Takeaway" / 10-6-B). Thus, it will be hopelessly Under Plane and therefore misaligned in relation to the Baseline of the Plane and the ball that rests upon it.

This mistake can be, indeed must be, corrected by realigning at the Top, as happens in the Compensated Strokes of even fine players. But, why bother with all that when a simple solution is available? Namely, use an On Plane (Zone 3), Right Forearm Pickup (Zone 2) in conjunction with a perfect Pivot (Zone 1).

:golfcart2:

Please extend comment to include;

7-10- ... correct Rhythm in both directions. ....

Thanks

The Bear

My efforts at keeping the left wrist flat and extensor action combined with my intensity always made it difficult to swing without excessive tension. That as a result kept me from experiencing "throw out". I ended up with a corrupted CF swinging procedure with hitting and steering elements. Therefore I had trouble releasing and getting to a full finish. Greg believes the arms just hang and if he lifts your arms up at address and it pulls your thorax and head up he feels you have to much tension. I think that is a good concept. However extensor action is mentioned so often it is essential to a good procedure. For me I have to guard against to much EA and rigidity. Also I feel that although other thoughts and ideas can be helpful it is important to commit to one set of ideas for success. I am guilty of tinkering with my swing to much. So for me I am committed to the "literalists" because I feel that will work best for me. So I am trying to eliminate everything I can. There is a time to get off the forum's, stop looking at the videos, give up on the golf publications close your mind. For this to work you have to have chosen the right procedures. I think I am on the right track

that's cool, i was thinking that - exposure to this excellent forum may finally be getting me somewhere towards TGM thinking :-) can't wait to get back out with the clubs when the weather lets up