LynnBlakeGolf Forums - Shoulder Turn Throw versus the Wrist Throw

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Spent several hours at the TPC Norton range on Sunday and TW has the tighest dispersion of anyone out there. His swing is tight, controlled and powerful low draws. He was practicing a very odd movement. He would rehearse his take away to the top then pump drill down. During the pump drill he was purposely bending his left wrist and flattening/arching the right wrist as much as humanely possible. All I could think is that he is trying to rid himself of the arched left wrist at impact??

Thanks everyone for the comments and information. So, do we still suggest a wrist hand throw for a normal golfer? I would guess most golfers use a pivot, shoulder throw to start the dwonswing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryti (Post 67542)

Thanks everyone for the comments and information. So, do we still suggest a wrist hand throw for a normal golfer? I would guess most golfers use a pivot, shoulder throw to start the dwonswing?

Just the opposite. The Shoulder Turn Throw is more compatible with the Hand Throw.

Normally, swingers should use the Wrist Throw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 67522)

Sorry, I couldn't wait for Yoda.

Wow. This is TGM. Digging deep into theory and then being able to apply the procedures in your G.O.L.F. swing. Dinner conversation.

The Shoulder Turn Throw, throws the Primary Lever (or the Left Arm), while the Wrist Throw is thrown and is a procedure to allow a snap release of the Secondary Lever in a Sequenced Release. ©

Normally, the Shoulder Turn Throw and Wrist Throw are mutually exclusive. Sweep vs. Snap Release.

Shoulder Turn Throws, when Thrown from the Top, produce a Sweep Release. The Power Package unfolds during the Downstroke because the initial Pivot Acceleration is not maintained so the Left Arm moves away from the chest immediately following the Start of the Downstroke. It should be used when a No Wrist Cock Stroke is used.

Example: Swingers Long Chip or Level Wrist Pitch Shot needs a Shoulder Turn Throw to Drive the #4 Accumulator to Power the Swing. You need to acquire the “Hogan” tension in the Pivot (rubber bands – Hip Action) so that when the Left Heel is lowered to the ground (quickly lowered) it will Throw the Shoulders, which pulls the Primary Lever. This Throw, truly frees the Hands for Finesse control for these shots.

Whenever you stand Open-Square-Square to the Target to build enough X Factor so that Hip Action can power the Primary Lever, you are using the Shoulder Throw Procedure. If you use the Shoulder Throw Exclusively on a Full Stroke Shot, and Throw from the Top, then you’ll notice about a fifty-yard loss of distance off the Tee.

Wrist Throw. The Wrist Throw does not throw anything but is itself Thrown. With a Stationary Head, the Right Hand is Thrown passed the Line of Sight to the Ball while remaining Palm up. The Head must stay back in the Center of your stance and you must allow the hands to move forward of your head (Power Package moved by the pivot). Super-Pitched Elbow because the Right Elbow is almost at your Belt Buckle for you to maintain a Palm Up Right Wrist while the Left Wrist is Uncocking. Keep your Head, Clubhead and Ball behind the Hands.

The Purpose of the Wrist Throw is so that at the End of the Swivel (Impact or one inch before) Horizontal Hinge Action and the #3 Accumulator Roll, are overlaid, and occur simultaneously so that the Sweetspot remains tracing the same plane line. In the TGM 12-2-0 #20, Horizontal Hinge Action and The #3 Accumulator Roll are the Same Thing!

Can a G.O.L.F.’er employ Both, the Shoulder Turn Throw and the Wrist Throw during the Same Swing?

The ultimate Swingers Swing. Change 12-2-0 #24 to 10-24-E AUTOMATIC SNAP RELEASE. The fact that it Feels like there isn't a Release is only a FEEL.

Yes.
The #2 Pressure Point replaces the #3 Pressure Point and it must sense and Direct Pivot Power and Direction and Tracing.
Pivot Acceleration must not subside until Release so that a Snap Release rather than a Sweep Release can be used.
Slower Startdown, leave the Hands at the Top but pull the Left Arm down with the Pivot all of the way into Release. The Shoulders Throw the Left Arm off the Chest at Release (Hip Action synchronizing and Powering Uncocking and the Swivel).

The Picture below is what the Combination I think would look like on an Elbow Plane. Hips and Shoulders Wide Open. The Pivoting Hips keep moving.

Notice the Level Left Wrist at Impact and the High #3 Accumulator Angle and the Elbow Plane..........But the FEEL is that the Left Wrist is Uncocked at Impact. But the Ball will be gone before the Left Wrist is completely Uncocked. If he were on the Turned Shoulder Plane, his Hands would be more Turned and Higher. It Looks like he has a Weaker Left Hand.

Daryl,

Where did you come up with the 50 yard loss in distance with the Shoulder Turn Throw as mentioned above???

DG

My own experimenting in performing Shoulder Throws and measuring distance results. Also, I've taken each of these procedures to the Course many times. Direction isn't a problem. Distance is very easy to measure, especially off the tee.

I'll do ten or more Shoulder Throws. -50 Yards
Using the Pivot to Throw the Primary Lever from the Top with Hip Action at Startdown. You spend the Pivot at the Top. There's not much else you can do.

Ten or more shoulder Throws with Hand Throws. -25 Yards
Using the Muscles of the Left Shoulder, Arm, and Back to simultaneously pull the Left Arm Down while using a Shoulder Throw. Feels like a Hammer-thrower in the Olympics.

Ten or more Wrist Throws with my normal Downstroke Acceleration Sequence.

Slower Startdown, leaving my Hands at the Top while the Pivot Lowers the Right Shoulder and Power Package On-Plane to Release where Hip Action Throws the Right Hand past the Line of Sight. The Left Wrist Uncocks then Swivels into the Horizontal Hinge.

Hip Motion may lead the Shoulders. Hip Action Throws the Right Shoulder.

The Ball travels farther when the Accumulators are Released Close together. 1,2,3 at Release. Vs. #1 at the Top, #2 at Release, #3 just before Impact.

As soon as the Primary Lever moves Away from the Chest, the Left Wrist begins to Uncock. I can't find any Mechanical advantage to this procedure in a full Swing.

When the Wrist Throw begins, the Left Arm is still across the Chest though the Power Package has Lowered the Hands to Release during the Hand Acceleration Sequence. Hips and Shoulders are open (very Open) at Impact. When "Both Arms Straight" occurs, the Hands become centered in your Body. So, all of these actions and Impact occur while the Hands have not yet reached Center of the Shoulders.

See this for yourself on a Horizontal Plane.
Stand up Straight. Both Arms Straight at shoulder height and Hands Centered. Bend your Right Elbow a few inches while simultaneously moving your Hands to the Right so that your Left Arm crosses your chest. Keep that geometry while turning your torso to the Left until your hands reach line of sight to the ball. Shoulders are very open. That's pretty close to Impact.

I probably am misunderstanding the concepts put forth in this thread but....

I struggle many times getting axis tilt at impact, I dont have a steep shoulder turn, there are two ways that can help me.

1. is to make my normal swing but with a braced tilt built into my setup, head is clearly back, then I just think rotate.

2. take a more traditional setup per TGM. When I get to the top though I really think throw the club with my right arm, kind of like a "whip" or like skipping a stone. To do this you get into a pitch elbow with axis tilt. Is this the same "wrist throw"? I see no loss in distance, if anything I see an increase in height and carry.

Throws alone don't make a swing. Throws don't power a swing.

Throws release the stored potential of the Power Package Accumulators.

The Shoulder throw evenly empties the Accumulators during the Downstroke. But it also launches the Power Package from the Top without much chance of anymore acceleration than what the launch produced.

The Wrist Throw is more of an explosive release. It uses a Shoulder Throw at Release. Almost instantaneous release of all accumulators.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 67683)

Almost instantaneous release of all accumulators.

So when you said

The Ball travels farther when the Accumulators are Released Close together. 1,2,3 at Release. Vs. #1 at the Top, #2 at Release, #3 just before Impact.

reading these quotes,

so the shoulder/wrist throw helps release these closer together and should aid in getting more power?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmbtempe (Post 67684)

Yes.

When the Shoulder Throw occurs at Release rather than the Top of the Swing, and using it to throw the Right Wrist will use the available power of the Pivot thrusting the Power Package into Release.

Using a Shoulder throw at the Top of the Swing will not use all of the available power.

Quote:

2-M-2 POWER REGULATION Clubhead Lag Pressure Point pressure (6-C) is the Power Regulator. It meters out Power by sensing Clubhead Acceleration Rate and Direction. That is:
To vary the Effective Clubhead Mass, vary
1. The Acceleration Rate (Lag Pressure 7-11)
2. The Swing Radius (length of the Primary Lever Assembly 6-B-0)
To vary Clubhead Speed, vary
3. Acceleration Time (Length of the Stroke 10-21)
4. The Release Interval (Centrifugal Reaction 6-N-0)
So it is optional to use any one or any combination of the four alternatives. Also study 12-0 in this connection.

With "Throws", it's more important where/when the Throw occurs, which relates to #4 above: the Release Interval. The Shorter the Release Interval, the faster the Centrifugal Reaction. Secondary Lever.

The Hand Throw, Shoulder Throw from the Top, and I'll go so far as to include the Right Arm Throw from the Top, are specialty Procedures and have no place in a Standard Stroke Pattern. I'll be criticized for saying that, but whatever. The Fact of "Golf Life" is that as soon as the Left Arm moves away from the chest (not down), release begins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 67683)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 67686)

what do you think of using this procedure as a swinger? Advisable, or barking up the wrong tree?