Bucket, thanks for the links but be sure that this thread was for discussion of how we to explain why the ball behaves differently when we use different hinges...is it real or just d-plane with a "seems as if"....it is not intended to rip Homer's work...but equally we should not fear reaching a conclusion that differs from HK.

PLEASE DO NOT EQUATE "D-PLANE" WITH ANY OTHER TGM QUALIFIED INSTRUCTORS WORK (see, not just Ben Hogan and Homer who can use caps for effect!). It is Dr. T's phrase as far as i am aware...

For those who state that Hinge action is just altering the clubface at impact...hence d-plane alignments at impact... does anyone have proof that the clubface behaves differently PRE-IMPACT for horizontal hinge versus vertical hinge which we obviously feel as though they occur through impact??

ie. "the club is preparing pre-impact to get to a different destination post impact" ...as clubhead travel differs post impact for horizontal and vertical hinge actions.

AGAIN, I stress keep this is meant to be a non-patronising / non-confrontational discussion...Thanks - keep your thoughts coming.

Sorry . . . I didn't think you put it up as a rip at all. Certainly didn't mean to imply that you were disparaging Mr. K's work by opening the discussion. Based on this cat's work there are certainly some areas where The Machine and this dude don't match.

But I would say that BOTH Mr. K and Jerkingsome or whatever his name is both understand that the face controls the starting direction and the divergence of the path to the face makes the ball curve due to tilting of the axis it is spining on . . . and Mr. K didn't have no 'puter.

Bottom line swing right of the face ball hooks . . . swing left of the face and it fades. There are some big pieces in this regards to shaft lean as well and how you get your hands on the club.

You're cool with me and my post wasn't meant to make you into no criminal.

I know Andy Plummer, co-originator of stack and tilt, (and a member of this forum) bases his assertion that face angle determines initial direction on high speed video. You never know, he may have studied this subject as well.

Maybe someone who knows him could pm him and ask him to post his views on the subject.

Thanks Bucket - just wanted to make sure that we both on the same page... I know that you show them 'gators no mercy when you looking to have some fun in your spare time so I get a little worried about what you and your southern chums would do with a young pup like me...

...in the UK we use "Deliverance" as a cultural training aid for tourists who fancy a trip to your parts!

Or how about Top Gears run across the Southern States? It might have been Buckets gas station :golfcart: :laughing9

You'd be just fine . . . make sure you get fitted for a cork before crossing the pond and the mason dixon.

I believe that Dr. Jorgensen's work would disagree that hinge action, whether horizontal, angled, or vertical, could have any effect on ballflight with regard to how the face is behaving during the "impact interval' (time the ball is in contact with the face of the club). I don't believe he would agree with the notion that the face is 3 degrees more open at impact than it is at seperation, either; impact doesn't last long enough and the face doesn't rotate fast enough for that to be possible. This is just from what I understand of his research.

That's is what I gathered from reading the stuff as well. Whether he's right is a whole 'nuther story. . . .

Perhaps, but the idea isn't so much the directional influences of the impact interval face angle per se, but the efficient transfer of energy (and that transfers impact on ball flight) per chapter 2 force vectors discussion.

The line of compression being a straight line.

Doesn't anybody read "Search For The Perfect Swing"? It showed that with good friction during collision, the ball will start in a direction which is 65% of the difference between the clubface angle and the clubhead path, favoring the clubface angle. Reduced friction moves the starting direction closer to the clubface angle. The book debuted in '68, way before "The Physics of Golf", and one year before Homer's. The research findings are all being confirmed present day by TrackMan. I don't think Homer was too pleased that a golf "science" book came out one year before his life's work. I don't beleive that many TGM devotees have studied "Search", but if you want a plethora of good science regarding the impact collision and much else, including biomechanics of the golf swing, then read "Search". It can only aid your understanding of TGM.