Hi Loren - I agree with this bit...

But it does not make the words I found in 7-23 easier to understand!:laughing9

It clearly states that the Line paths are cross line procedures. That section was not present in the thrid edition (it first appeared in 1979 - I think - I do not have the 1st or 2nd editions but it was definitely not in 7-23 in 1975 3rd edition).

Homer must have meant what he said.

Is is a way of expressing the feeling that Hogan had of his downswing going out to right field? ie. a cross line feel of the hands??

OK, enough incubating.
 

The eggs are starting to hatch.

IMO, and not an authorized one I must say, golfbulldog, you're right in a lot of ways.

Per 12-2-0 the standard variation for the swinging basic pattern component 23 Delivery Path is Top Arc and Straight Line, not Circle. Of course that means down the Turned Shoulder Plane, the shoulder needs to go down that plane also, hence a parallel hip slide, or bump. If you don't go to End then there's no Top Arc out to Top before the straight line path.

And per 7-23, Delivery Line visual equivalents must comply with the cross-line procedure of line delivery paths and the on-line procedure of circle path. So you're right there.

However, the reverse may not be true. i.e. the delivery path (hands) may not have to comply with the delivery line (visual equivalent). For instance, per 2-J-3, the visual Arc of Approach applies to both 10-23-D (line) and 10-23-E (circle). The Arc of Approach is an optical illusion to the golfer. Tracing the true plane line is even more precise and does not alter the clubhead arc.

I might add that the reference to 10-23-D should properly say 10-23-C since it's the same as C, which is the preferred Turned Shoulder Plane. Why refer to the inferior plane shift?

Now, in 2-J-3 we have that the arc of approach and the angle of approach are always interchangeable. Hence Lynn Blake's equivalence in the Collin Neeman instruction video chapter 8, a swinging procedure.

The question hanging out, to me, is "Does a swinger bump cross-line when using Angle of Approach visual equivalent?"
I think not because of the difference between CF "throw out" and the hitter's right forearm drive-out. I think the difference is in the right shoulder's active versus passive participation. The hitter, if using the active right shoulder for a 4-barrel hit uses it very briefly, a fraction of a second before switching to a right forearm drive-out with the right shoulder as a moving platform to support it. As such, the right shoulder's motion must change to the new steep 10-5-E plane line which requires a cross-line bump. This allows the hitter to drive it down to China, chewing up a lot of turf.
The swinger using the angle of approach visual equivalent can start getting too steep and hitting it fat. Then according to Lynn on the video, it's time to go back to tracing the true plane line.

Maybe where you should be looking is in the difference between the linear motion of a hitter and the angular motion of a swinger.

Both deliver pp3 in a straight line but the swingers club head follows an arcing path.

This is truely insane. I have now gotten off of zoloft, and am now on cymbalta, xanax and ambien.

May I sleep now?

Seriously......

(ok, I am on them all :) )

I've carved a canal on the top of my head from scratching it too much. Anyone have some clean fill dirt?

Incredibly thought provoking conversation....

I hear you, phillygolf.
 

Heh! I agree. Scratched a lot of head fur off m'self, thanks to bulldog.

So here's the deal, IMUO (in my unauthorized opinion).
Just trace the base line with the #3 pressure point and you're golden.
Or equivalently, direct the #3 pressure point to inside-aft quadrant.
How's that?

Bottom line according to the book, if you're using Circle Path you have to use Arc of Approach, or trace the plane line with #3 PP. Otherwise, any visually equivalent line is an option.

As a swinger, you bump parallel because you're using CF throw-out for alignment.
As a hitter, if you choose the steep alternate plane angle of Line of Approach
(10-5-E) you have to bump cross-line and cover the line on the ground with the clubhead, or trace the alternate plane line with #3 pressure point.

Already said too much.

Me too.

So i get a few questions in my head

Hmmm....no, dont think so. Conversely, circle delivery is a swinging procedure. But, again - no book here - I dont think swingers need/require circle delivery.



I do not think so ...
Ok...isnt delivery path the path of the hands? If so, then no. Cross line is procedure is a reference to thrust - hitting - because the direction is across the planeline. You could have straight line delivery path with swinging (couples) and still have arc of approach.

not sure...

Snap is in reference to accum # 2 believe. You most likely have a straight line del path, but doesnt require it.

Depends what you mean - arc/angle of approach? Need clarification.

Cross line would be 'out to right field', a hitting procedure. Swinging wouldnt be out to right field simply because.....rotational.
Arc of approach.



Not sure. Here's what I do know. Hips move, as directed by the hands, to allow an onplane motion.

Sorry, thats it for now. I am beat.