Matt and Joe,

You have it backwards....a hitter using horizontal hinging would change his left wrist action to standard which is a natural move....the left wrist wants to turn naturally in the backswing...the manipulated move is resisting that natural turning action per 7-19-1 for single wrist action for the true hitter. Even with a punch basic stroke, horizontal hinging and standard wrist action the motion should be down and out per 1-L #13 and 14 with the right forearm for release....the wrists and arms should roll naturally with the rotation of the pivot.

I think you'll find a comment by Homer in the book that goes something like this.....don't make the game more complicated then it already is....


DG

Dave,

You wrote - "the left wrist wants to turn naturally in the backswing...". I do end up with the clubface in the correct position at the top without doing a Swinger's Turn of the LW at the beginning of the Swing. No manipulation on the BS. A manipulation on the DS IS required to effect Horiz Hinging, and the forearm rotation added to the thrust is DOWN AND OUT on plane. You seem to think it's not. It's a very simple and effective move - to the thrusting heel of the Right Hand, add a counterclockwise "unscrewing" motion.

thanks again mj...
 

for validating something i've been thinking/doing...i have been visualizing my swing by moving the center of my hands (where they meet on the grip) to the top along a path pretty much described by the "surgical tubing" drill and screwing that center point one way on the BS and the opposite way on the DS while thrusting/punching my right hand heel to my left big toe...works great as long as i push off my right leg to my left (kinda like throwing a ball, which i do much better at this point than hit a golf ball) and not plant my right leg and reverse pivot (my favorite fault:-)

-hcw

hcw,

The difference for me is that I don't do the "screwing" on the BS, only the "unscrewing" on the DS. I end up at the top with the clubface in the turned shoulder plane without the initial LW Turn of Standard Wrist Action. In fact, I don't use a Turned LW in my Swinging Procedures either, because the shaft moving from the Elbow Plane to the Turned Shoulder Plane makes it unclear to me how much to turn it and it's easy to end up turning it too much with the clubface facing too much upward.

Joe,

No comment....have at it....keep manipulating the downstroke as you say...

DG

Will do - just as Hogan did with his Hand Manipulated Swing.

I need defogging.....
 

I've misunderstood somewhere Joe. If one doesn't "turn" the left wrist on the b/s wouldn't your "unscrewing" motion on the d/s cause you to pull the ball due to a closed clubface? Also, would your motion be considered a compensation per TGM? Thanks for any defogging mate.

John

Re: I need defogging.....
 

The 'unscrewing' motion is a 'supporting roll' (pun intended)

The design of the club is such that left to its own motion, the clubface will 'line up' with the plane of motion/force - open.

Rotation is needed to get it, or keep it, square to the arc - to keep the sweetspot on plane.

If you used the 'twist' on the backswing, but then didn't provide 'support' to keep it there, you'd hit it way right every time. If you 'turn' on the backswing, you simply have farther to 'roll' on the downswing to get back to 'square to the arc'.

Re: I need defogging.....
 

As EdZ says the clubface(actually leading edge) ends up in plane at the top from the orbiting of the arms. I'd have to manipulate to keep the face pendicular to the arc. I'm very flexible and the sweetspot gets into the plane without any intentional LW turn to start the BS. Yes, "unscrewing" is a compensation to replace Angled Hinging with Horizontal. The "unscrewing" happens late enough that the face is still open at Impact.

Re: I need defogging.....
 

Please understand that I don't post here just to be confrontational or to delight in preying on others ideas. My only goals here are to provide any help that I can to get the "word" out and keep it as clean as Homer would want it. But, I'm very concerned about Mizunojoe or anyone else that's attempting to use horizontal hinging with hitting. The results can be a DISASTER. I would like to see this manipulated action in person, even better, under the gun. My hypothesis about the motion (without seeing it) is that there is some centripetal (inward turning) force that would require a horizontal hinge action to get the ball to go straight. The rythms are VERY different. The other hypothesis would be that the overtaking found in angled hinging is being mistaken for horizontal.

First, about the uncocking, read the last paragraph in 7-3 (The magic of the right forearm). I'm going to try to give you a demonstration in text; so, be patient.

I want you to go to 4-B-1 in the book and mimic the picture, with one exception. I want you to point your thumbs straight out and away from you when doing this. Now, bend ONLY your right elbow. This should make the right thumb point skyward. Finally, without bending the left elbow, make the left wrist cock so that the thumbs match the direction they're pointing. This is a demonstration of the text found at the bottom of the page in 7-3 (the bending and straightening of the right elbow cocking and uncocking the left wrist). Therefore, the #1 accumulator uncocks the left wrist. I, personally, have no awareness of the #2 pressure point being active other than its orginal pressure established in the grip.

Second, the pushing force of hitting creates angled hinging. Anything else would be a manipulation.

I would put a hitting motion with horizontal hinging in the "don't try this at home" category, as it may cause personal injury to you or someone around you. :)