"Homer Kelley felt very strongly that all golfers -- not just 'good golfers' -- would benefit from Clubs with a stiff shaft flex."

What explaination did he give for that Lynn?

Why A Stiff Shaft?
 

The stiffer Shaft better resists the Impact Collision and also promotes less Clubface deviation both prior to and during Impact.

Remember, for Swingers, Centrifugal Force is driving the Sweetspot, not the Clubshaft. It is functioning merely as a piece of string that, in fact, is being stiffened by the outward pull of Centrifugal Force itself. So, other than being of sturdy construction and for the reasons cited, Shaft Flex means little to the Swinger.

For the Hitter, though, Shaft Flex is mission-critical. He demands a stiff Shaft against which to push the Clubhead Lag through Impact.

I believe you can easily get a shaft that's too stiff for you.

I'm no expert clubfitter...so someone may explain the consequences of a too stiff a shaft.

It's all about optimisation...not necessarily maximisation (i.e. max stiffness).

Stiff Shaft Stuff
 

That is the conventional wisdom, Leo. Always has been. Homer Kelley -- and Karsten Solheim, founder of Ping -- believed otherwise.

On what facts do you base your opinion?

:)

stiff shaft for hitter
 

Tried my friends new 2006 Cleveland Launcher yesterday, with a stiff shaft, whereas my old-style Launcher has regular flex. Have been leaning towards hitting recently and indeed, the stiff shaft felt pretty good. Was also chipping balls with my driver the other day, and at that speed you can feel that shaft bending back as you impact the ball - which also made me wonder if stiffer shafts might be better.

Yoda, for a hitter would a stiffer shaft help primarily with control/accuracy or distance? Or would it have an effect on both?

Chris

I'm sure Ted Fort (Yodasluke) could share some of his experience regarding shaft flex. I know Paul Smith (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/v....php?page=pros) believes that shaft flex matters, and stiffer is not necessarily better. Brian Manzella also has some clubfitting knowledge and maybe he could share his thoughts.

The message I got from Homer is go use the stiffest shaft you can find and play with that.

The logic is that only a stiffer shaft can minimise clubface twisting through impact. Which is true...but there are other properties in the shaft that contribute to a good golf shot too. The stiffest shaft may not give the optimal ball flight.

I heard Yoda got custom fitted with HG. I'm sure he didn't just say, "no need to fit my shaft...just give me the stiffest one you have!" Or maybe he did (?). I say that with only a little bit of tongue-in-cheek :D .

While we're on this topic, let me raise another point. Homer also said lie angle doesn't matter because the unevenness of the golf course even when the ball is on the fairway will easily offset the couple of degrees of difference in lie angle of the club. Now I know some very knowledgeable people (i.e. has knowledge in TGM and clubfitting) who disagree with that.

Sorry this post isn't very scientific, I'm no expert in this area.

stiffness
 

In this department, I only have my personal experience in fitting to give. For what that's worth, here it is:

I use the stiffest, steel shafts in my irons that Henry-Griffitts offers. From the appearance of the step-downs, I'd estimate they are in the X100 range of dynamic shafts. To my recollection, Yoda uses the shaft that's one step lower than mine. All are "Pured", including the putter. I do have graphite shafts in my driver and 5 wood. They are also very stiff and "Pured". History has shown me that hitters prefer stiff and heavy, and swingers are all over the map. Some of the best engineering minds (Karsten and Kelley) have always been proponents of 'stiffer is better'. Karsten had 90 year old women playing stiff shafts. I think that might have been a little overboard with an ideal, though I wouldn't have chosen an engineering duel with the man. Maybe Karsten was a closet hitter. ;)

My own hypothesis is this:
You need to use whatever shaft allows you to sense lag pressure. When fitting using trial and error, there tends to be A shaft that becomes the one for every individual. Centeredness of the strikes becomes better, along with trajectory, and distance. Some have surprised me by needing stiffer shafts and some needing weaker shafts. But, once you find the one that works, it's hard to rationalize making it stiffer. I've also found that it's not all about velocity. Clubhead speed does not equal stiffness of the shaft. There is a mass component.

I know that when I use a more flexible shaft, I can hit it off the planet to the right. It feels like I'm over-stressing the shaft. The stiffer the shaft means the more accurate I become. I find it difficult to push a rope.

lie angle
 

Also from personal experience, I'd have to say lie angles can make a difference. One of my best friends and co-workers, Steve Ferguson, wouldn't be able to play with my clubs. I'm about six feet tall and have very long arms. Steve on the other hand is about 5'6" and also has very long arms, for his height. I use a 38" 5 iron and a standard lie angle, and Steve uses a 37 1/2 inch 5 iron that's 6 degrees flat! That alone should debunk the myth I've heard that Henry-Griffitts fitters fit everyone long and upright. I've also fit a man that was 6'11" in a club that was 6 degrees upright and 3" longer than standard. These are the extremes, but I can only marvel at the differences in the strokes after being properly fit.

Homer Kelley and the Facts
 

Careful, here, Leo. :)

I spent a week personally with Homer Kelley and a year or so on the phone with him on both sides of that week. Further, I have on disc all three of his GSEM (Golf Stroke Engineering Master) Classes (some eighty hours of audio recordings). In all that experience, I have yet to hear the words you have attributed to him.

He has said that the cambered iron sole and the ever-ready Right Forearm permits positioning between the various Planes, but he never said "Lie angle doesn't matter." In fact, Club Guru Ralph Maltby was in one of his early 'lecture series' classes (arranged by Ben Doyle for interested professionals), and he showed Homer the now familiar club-with-rod-extending- from-the-Clubface to illustrate how lie angle affects Clubface alignment. Homer was impressed with this visual, and he noted the demonstrated fact in 2-D-0:

"Tilting the Leading Edge changes the Clubface alignment. Up--to the left. Down--to the right. Merely deviating from the Address Plane Angle will do this by tilting the Clubshaft."

More and more I see personal agendas being promoted -- not yours -- with unchallenged, unsubstantiated statements such as "Homer said this or Homer said that and this particular tour player is obviously not doing this or that." Or "Lynn teaches only this kind of student in only this way or that." Or hypotheticals such as "If Homer was still alive he would change his thinking because of this or that." Or even "If Homer was teaching in a driving range setting he wouldn't be successful because of this or that."

To all of which I say...

First, ignore the hypotheticals.

As to the statements of 'fact:'

Consider the source.

Demand proof.

Homer did.

And so do I.

Bye Mike
 

Mike,

You are a great Ball Striker and a 'nice guy' in person. However, I find your continued negative, baiting behavior on this site both inexplicable and abominable. Whatever you've got against Ted and me is now between you and your guidance counselor.

Post as you will elsewhere, but you are no longer welcome here, and effective immediately, you are banned from our site.