Not to beat a dead horse... but chin position is a primary reason for that difference. A non-swiveled chin forces the body to move off center in order to complete a full turn with the upright arm swing. Those who swing their arms flatter don't have as much of a 'collision' with the shoulder/chin and/or lesser arm/shoulder turn, so it isn't as big a factor.

Yes they are significant....and also are in this. You are right in that sense.

But this goes back to the "is it really that simple?" argument.

i.e. is it that simple that if the "Stationary Post" moves precision is lost? (flat-out)

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And besides, I only referenced the significance of a few inches in regards to the FEEL of head movement. I was saying that I didn't think the feel was very significant. I think the body position is tho.

It's arguable tho. (both of those points)

Anyway...I have not whiffed in a real long time, I'll tell you that buddy.

I don't understand the logic in that.

Of course , I am not qualified to give any thesis .

But I think golf is a game, where there is no perfect options. To a very huge extend, its Comfort and feel preference, and maybe even Illusions.

As long as you find a way that the shoulder joint to club position have the same position and radius all the time, you hit good balls. John Daly, Jim Furyk.


However, Since you agree that TGM is geometrically correct.

Can you also agree that, The less thing you have to move or monitor is thus less compensation. I think That is the true meaning of what is compensation.

Or kindly explain what is your meaning of compensation, compensating for what we feel? This is the impression i got from your thesis.

The less thing you have to move,
1. The more confident you have to apply maximum lag pressure.
2. The less thing you have to monitor and train. And the more accurate you are from day to day thus less compensation.


Though I remember , something someone said, i think its very deep.

In Pivot controlled hands, Physics Precedes
Hand controlled pivot, Geometry precedes

So I believe, body controlled hands or people trying to use their body to generate power, will like to feel momentum transfer, thus the said phenomenum. Ben hogan pushing the right heel etc.

But at the end of the day. As long as you can strike the way you like it , ball after ball after ball . its your correct way.

Nothing to argue about really and not worth getting confused about.

David Orr didn't mind his students with a slight BOB. Why should us ?

This video seems to illustrate very well the complications of moving the head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wN2p...elated&search=

Matt

How so M-dog? (can I call u M-dog?...lol)

It shows the head move...doesn't prove anything really tho.

He did have more head movement back then too. (and he did do OK)

Yeah, I answer to M-dog. Watching this clip is disorientating, and I think it illustrates the amount of compensation necessary by the motor system in order to strike solid golf shots with head movement. Yeah, I'm sure he hit it extremely well. The question is whether the average player is giving up consistency by moving the head. For me personally, this clip is enough for me to try and keep my head as still as possible and feel that I have eliminated one element from my swing that can go wrong.

Certainly for another person this clip will not mean the same as it does to me, I think that's perfectly reasonable. That's the beauty of golf, with a lot of study and work we can design a golf swing that we feel makes sense and hopefully produces excellent results, head movement or not.

Kind of.

He DID have quite a bit of head movement back then and I'd say his Pivot these days is better...

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This video does not give you a true representation of what the Tiger SEES tho.

You have to remember that Tiger's eyes move in the sockets throughout....and they will stay glued on the ball in the Backstroke...

The camera on the other hand only represents how the head moves. The camera basically shows what it would be like if his eyes could only look STRAIGHT out of the face. (so you'd look to the right of the ball as the head sways AND swivels in the Backstroke)

I hope you understand what I'm trying to get across.

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Try a Pivot like Tiger's and tell me if it's as disorienting as the video might make it seem.

BTW as you said if you are having better results with what you're doing then by all means do it.

You are absolutely right, a complete misunderstanding of what was occurring on my part. Thank you.

Matt

Excellent point birdieman...well done!

This makes me think of my own swing that I have been working on more with video...some distressing compensations in my swing that I need to work on...one is head movement on my backswing...I move my head up but it might be due to my head/chin being too close to my body and in the way when my left shoulder attempts to complete a shoulder turn...in order to continue turning my whole body and head raise a bit as I complete the back turn...I am going to work on a preturned head and my chin raised up to accomodate my shoulder turn...my eyes can still be looking down and to the left.