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-   -   Hogan Right Shoulder Motion Elbow Plane Hitter (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7856)

BerntR 12-25-2010 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 80380)
The shoulder turn always stays ahead of the hands? Perhaps we need to define what this means to each of us.

To me that means that the shoulders are powering the hands and that the Hands havent separated or accelerated away from the shoulders. Meaning the right elbow is fully bent , the left arm is still in contact with the left pec. So you havent Released at all. The power accumulators are remain fully loaded. Well at least 4 and 1....which in my book means 2 and 3 are still fully loaded too. Im thinking you must have a different meaning in mind for "stays ahead" , not sure.

Quote:
Yes I do have a different meaning. When your left hand is pointing at the ball, the axis that runs from your neck to your left shoulder is pointing towards the target, or perhaps slightly left of the target. That leaves at leas 90 degrees of accumulator #4 lag. If you are able to turn hard it will translate to more swing speed and more ball compression. The alternative is a left shoulder that stops turning before impact.

My point is that the shoulders will power the hands even if PP#4 isnt't being used at all. It is all in the geometry.

You can release all you want. As long as you don't stop turning the shoulders. This part of Acc #4 lag pressure is maximised when the shoulders are 90* ahead of the club head. The only key in practice is to keep turning hard until past impact.

I'm not inventing new forces here. This is plain mechanics.
Not saying there isnt a feel of turning the pivot hard , keeping the arms packed for elbow planers. But a real would be a different deal altogether. Wouldnt it?
It's real. If you don't believe it try to replace the left hand with something that hangs from your neck. I am confident that half or quarter strokes will be sufficient to feel the difference.

PS: Happy Christmas, OB Left. It has been a pleasure to agree and disagree with you in 2k10.:golfer3:

O.B.Left 12-25-2010 11:42 PM
Same here BerntR , all the best for you and yours in the coming year.

Ob

12 piece bucket 12-26-2010 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EC (Post 80379)
Bucket,

Gave my students from Italy a heavy dose of my machinestacker pattern along with a lot of Yoda in preparation for the Doral Jr. Publix. Results: In their respective divisions, Emilie Paltrinieri winner by 6 shots and her brother Julien Paltrinieri winner by 7 shots!

EC
Wouldn't have expected any different! Nice work! You snowed in???

david sandridge 12-26-2010 11:14 AM
Golly I must admit I have a hard time visualizing all this. I wish each of you had a plane board to demo your concepts on. Then I could see where the club head, club shaft and hands were in each of your descriptions. I think it is difficult to tell where the camera is in the pics shown. I know that some think the camera must be placed on the plane of the hands and at hands height in order to properly determine swing plane. I always thought that physics would dictate that swinging in a circle(ellipse) the thing swung would try to remain on the same plane. So If you are are hitting a driver with the ball foward, close your stance so that your plane is a little to right and swing how does swinging left fit in? If your hands and clubhead stayed on plane they would go left anyway. Wouldn't more left be off plane and under? This is all giving me a headache although I must admit I am bookmarking it to my Best of Lynn Blake file.

O.B.Left 12-26-2010 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by david sandridge (Post 80395)
Golly I must admit I have a hard time visualizing all this. I wish each of you had a plane board to demo your concepts on. Then I could see where the club head, club shaft and hands were in each of your descriptions. I think it is difficult to tell where the camera is in the pics shown. I know that some think the camera must be placed on the plane of the hands and at hands height in order to properly determine swing plane. I always thought that physics would dictate that swinging in a circle(ellipse) the thing swung would try to remain on the same plane. So If you are are hitting a driver with the ball foward, close your stance so that your plane is a little to right and swing how does swinging left fit in? If your hands and clubhead stayed on plane they would go left anyway. Wouldn't more left be off plane and under? This is all giving me a headache although I must admit I am bookmarking it to my Best of Lynn Blake file.

I totally agree , no need for a headache you got it right.

For flatter Plane Angles there is more In and less Up in the Three Dimensional orbit (forwards, up and in post low point). So Elbow Plane does have more Left (In) to it than higher plane angles. But to do this and swing left in a non aligned to the base line of the Inclined Plane manner is to risk what Homer termed "Bending the Plane Line" as the clubhead orbit goes three dimensional . .. non planar, with all its loss in precision and power.

Plane shifting can and should have no effect on the Base Line , Plane Line. 1-L-18. In this way the clubhead orbit stays 2 dimensional and the plane is not "bent".

Heres a plane board , but one that shifts angles (double shift represented here) while maintaining its aligned to the plane line relationship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NeizRf3JZY

12 piece bucket 12-26-2010 05:01 PM
Have a look . . . .

Our friend Golfbulldog has done a GREAT job here . . .

http://www.youtube.com/user/golfbull...46/-jmi2ZICmd8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJlzCoxiTdg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KI9X...eature=related

YodasLuke 12-26-2010 05:09 PM
"Amen" belongs here.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 80402)
I totally agree , no need for a headache you got it right.

For flatter Plane Angles there is more In and less Up in the Three Dimensional orbit (forwards, up and in post low point). So Elbow Plane does have more Left (In) to it than higher plane angles. But to do this and swing left in a non aligned to the base line of the Inclined Plane manner is to risk what Homer termed "Bending the Plane Line" as the clubhead orbit goes three dimensional . .. non planar, with all its loss in precision and power.

Plane shifting can and should have no effect on the Base Line , Plane Line. 1-L-18. In this way the clubhead orbit stays 2 dimensional and the plane is not "bent".

Heres a plane board , but one that shifts angles (double shift represented here) while maintaining its aligned to the plane line relationship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NeizRf3JZY
Keep preaching O.B.!!!!!

Yoda 12-26-2010 05:56 PM
The Whole Truth . . . Nothing But the Truth . . .Not Just the Left Truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 80402)

For flatter Plane Angles there is more In and less Up in the Three Dimensional orbit (forwards, up and in post low point). So Elbow Plane does have more Left (In) to it than higher plane angles. But to do this and swing left in a non aligned to the base line of the Inclined Plane manner is to risk what Homer termed "Bending the Plane Line" as the clubhead orbit goes three dimensional . .. non planar, with all its loss in precision and power.

Plane shifting can and should have no effect on the Base Line , Plane Line. 1-L-18. In this way the clubhead orbit stays 2 dimensional and the plane is not "bent".

Heres a plane board , but one that shifts angles (double shift represented here) while maintaining its aligned to the plane line relationship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NeizRf3JZY
I wrote this post in another thread a couple of days ago, but it is relevant here and worth a reprint . . .




In a Rhythmic, On Plane Golf Stroke, the orbiting Clubhead moves outward -- to the right and towards the Plane Line -- until it reaches its Low Point. Then, and only then, does it begin its journey inward -- to the left and away from the Plane Line.

The Flatter the 'exit' Plane Angle (after Impact), the more 'left' the Stroke will appear. But, this is a matter of Plane Angle, not Plane Line. The liberating truth is . . .

In a geometrically-correct Golf Stroke, the Clubhead never moves away from the Plane Line before Low Point, and it never moves toward the Plane Line after Low Point. So, it's Swing right, and then, Swing left.

:shock:

As a simplified alternative . . .

Trace the Straight Line Baseline of YOUR Inclined Plane!

:cool:

YodasLuke 12-26-2010 06:15 PM
Oh, the humanity!!!!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 80418)
I wrote this post in another thread a couple of days ago, but it is relevant here and worth a reprint . . .




In a Rhythmic, On Plane Golf Stroke, the orbiting Clubhead moves outward -- to the right and towards the Plane Line -- until it reaches its Low Point. Then, and only then, does it begin its journey inward -- to the left and away from the Plane Line.

The Flatter the 'exit' Plane Angle (after Impact), the more 'left' the Stroke will appear. But, this is a matter of Plane Angle, not Plane Line. The liberating truth is . . .

In a geometrically-correct Golf Stroke, the Clubhead never moves away from the Plane Line before Low Point, and it never moves toward the Plane Line after Low Point. So, it's Swing right, and then, Swing left.

:shock:

As a simplified alternative . . .

Trace the Straight Line Baseline of YOUR Inclined Plane!

:cool:
A STRAIGHT LINE????? :notworthy

But, that's too simple. Surely, we can make it much more impossible than that when we're in the heat of competition...

chipingguru 12-26-2010 06:30 PM
we are gonna need a team of scientist to verify this. Whats next? That the ball basically goes in the direction the clubface is pointing?


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