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Quote:

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 66709)

Bio . . . Once a student is through with the process of learning the motions you prescribe . . . do they have their "own" pivot and hand path . . .. or are there "optimal" or "model" check points you are looking for?

Also . . . . what do you think about Mr. Kelley's concept of a centered pivot? And do you subscribe to a particular Plane Angle? Or is that an option?

We don't have a swing model like TPI or others. And say you must get to these positions or numbers. I laugh when I read the theories. I think we'll thats great information so how do they suggest to get into positions. They have no solution. So really useless information to a golfer.

We look at creating a good kinetic link and creating more efficient movement patterns.Also how the body creates speed most effectively and consistently. We look at how the body is designed to the move most efficiently with less force as possible on the body to reduce injuries.

I can't mention players names due to privacy acts.
We have provide evaluations for 4 former world number 1 players.
They all have a good kinetic links and similar movement patterns.
Although their swing all look different to each other.

Basically we train them to create movement patterns of how their body is designed to move and function. Once the body learns natural movement patterns they develop their own pivot and planes etc.
Importantly to provide any training we need to test an athlete to find out what their issues are first.

Theres a natural way your body wants to move and create speed, we teach people how to achieve this.
Not sure what it is with golf, although most people struggle to create effective movement patterns. Golf is the hardest to train people how to develop movement patterns as well.
All the other sports working with athletes in tennis,baseball, hockey is a lot easier to train athletes to develop good movement patterns.
Golf is the most complex sport when it comes to movement patterns,
We train athletes in cycling,running, tennis,volleyball,baseball any bat and ball sport, throwing kicking and jumping out of all these motions or sport golf is the most complex.
We specialize in training athlete's how to create movement patterns and understand how the body moves.
Basically we teach people how their body wants to naturally move and create speed.
6-m-1 is how the body wants to move naturally we teach people how to achieve it.

Here's a good example Pete S in tennis has a good kinetic link . He plays of 3 in golf, he rips the golf ball. In tennis they have a similar kinetic link (6-M-1) he has a kinetic link his body knows how to naturally move. So didn't take Pete long to become good at golf.

Homer has some great information although here's the problem is people perceptions and points of view of homers work. Get a ton of TGM guys in one room and everyone has a different perception or point of view on his work.

Homer ideas on pivot it depends on how people perceive his ideas. I'd prefer to stay out of the argument to be honest.
Homer is the only one who knows what he meant by a centered pivot.
Plane Angle, people can create their own all I do is create the physics for them.

Bioengine,

You've referred to 6-M-1 on a number of occasions. Just to refresh you're memory:

Quote:

6-M-1 DOWNSTROKE SEQUENCE The Downstroke sequence of the Stroke Components is dictated essentially by Centrifugal Force; acceleration of a lagging Component will cease at the instant it achieves an “In-Line” position with its immediately preceding Component.

Centers and Accumulators can be sequenced, overlapped, omitted, emphasized, triggered, and timed as the players understanding and skill permit. But the Club’s Swing Radius (6-B-0) ends at the “non-lagging” Component nearest to the Clubhead. The “Centers” of the Stroke start with the Feet or the employed Component nearest to the feet in the following order: Knees, Hips, Shoulders, arms, Right Elbow, Left Wristcock and/or Left Hand Rotation. For maximum Power, the position of must be taken with that will allow Delay of the Release until all Components, except the Right Foot and Right Shoulder, have reached, or passed the Line-of-Site-to-the-Ball per 6-B-1-C. Then the Accumulators must move very rapidly toward their “In-Line” Position. But none should actually arrive (lose all their Lag and Drag until well after Impact. Also see 6-H-0.

Power Accumulators Release sequence is #4, #1, #2, #3 – regardless of which ones are being employed. Any Accumulator number may overlap or replace its preceding number but cannot precede it. Increase Overlap to increase THRUST – decrease Overlap to increase Velocity.

You don't seem to teach or believe any of this except "But none should actually arrive (lose all their Lag and Drag until well after Impact".

The “Centers” of the Stroke start with the Feet or the employed Component nearest to the feet in the following order: Knees, Hips, Shoulders, arms, Right Elbow, Left Wristcock and/or Left Hand Rotation.
Yeah I like it sounds pretty good to me.

Depends how we want to interpret what homer is saying.
I can fully understand what he is saying here.
6-m-1 best section in book everyone could learn from.

Really? It isn't open for interpretation. What makes you think it is? If you're confused about any word in 6-M-1 I'll be happy to explain it to you.

What about the remaining:

Do you subscribe to the Following Statement?

Quote:

For maximum Power, the position of must be taken with that will allow Delay of the Release until all Components, except the Right Foot and Right Shoulder, have reached, or passed the Line-of-Site-to-the-Ball per 6-B-1-C. Then the Accumulators must move very rapidly toward their “In-Line” Position. But none should actually arrive (lose all their Lag and Drag until well after Impact. Also see 6-H-0.

Have you ever produced a Golfer who's hands have passed the Line-of-Site-to-the-Ball prior to Release? It ain't happening at P3 Mr. Mechanics. How can you say Homer was wrong when you can't figure out how to do what he says.

I know what I'm talking about because that's what I do. I used to release at P3. I'll put Homers Method up against your P3 Release any day.

How about This Statement?

Quote:

Power Accumulators Release sequence is #4, #1, #2, #3 – regardless of which ones are being employed. Any Accumulator number may overlap or replace its preceding number but cannot precede it. Increase Overlap to increase THRUST – decrease Overlap to increase Velocity.

Would you say that a person who claims he releases Accumulators in this order #4-(2-3)-#1-#4-#5 is being consistent with the above quote?

Do you know why the 4-1-2-3 release order is the ONLY order possible?

Do you know how to Increase Overlap? Decrease Overlap?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bioengine (Post 66683)

Daryl,
How do you know, unless your have been tested to measures your body speed etc how do you know if they are accelerating and decelerating.
You can't no one can.
Myself I can't even feel these events occurring, the body is moving so fast you can't sense acceleration and deceleration occurring.

Daryl your going on your beliefs here. here's how conservation of momentum work
Formula M1*V1=-M2*V2
example
The above equation is one statement of the law of momentum conservation. In a collision, the momentum change of object 1 is equal to and opposite of the momentum change of object 2. That is, the momentum lost by object 1 is equal to the momentum gained by object 2. In most collisions between two objects, one object slows down and loses momentum while the other object speeds up and gains momentum. If object 1 loses 75 units of momentum, then object 2 gains 75 units of momentum. Yet, the total momentum of the two objects (object 1 plus object 2) is the same before the collision as it is after the collision. The total momentum of the system (the collection of two objects) is conserved.

In golf you need 6-M-1, conservation of momentum and muscular loading which fires each body segment to continue to create velocity(speed) until the distal end speed reaches the club.
Each body segment must accel/decl to transfer speed.

No beliefs or opinions, pure physics and measured science to back the theories.

Daryl, I could understand why your not doing this in your golf swing, if you were accelerating and decelerating each body segment you wouldn't be here you would be out on tour winning.
We all would be out there winning LOL.

As I say to everyday to those who argue, where is there measured science and research to back their beliefs and where is there measured science and research to prove us wrong. And what back ground or understanding do they have in biomechanics and movement patterns. SO they stop and think for minute so they open up their minds to other avneues.

Although the laws of physics all the biomechanists are on the same page, they all agree on newton's laws, conservation of momentum and the kinetic link. This is applied in all bat and ball sport.Not only golf we work with athlete's in many other sports and has tens of thousands athletes data. Years of research involved.

As I said no beliefs or opinions, we have research, measured science and Pure physics.

Energy is not conserved in MOST ALL collisions therefore M1V1 dOES NOT EQUAL M2V2... Infact COR is ALL ABOUT loss of energy... Geesh.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by bioengine (Post 66410)

Daryl,
No those type of physics, human motion physics.
The club moves around the axis of the spine.
If you learn to apply the right movement patterns or Kinetic Link. The clube will move around the axis of the spine.
The only geometry needed is squaring the face up at impact and knowing how to align your body square to the target.

Golf is 90% physics ( Movement patterns)

Malapropisms and buzz words

Daryl,
It Physics like come on, open up your mind here.
Your speaking about geometry.
This is a thread is on biomechanics isn't it.
So I'm educating people about biomechanics not geometry.

TGM is about geometric golf not biomechanics.

No mind what data do you have on movement patterns to put forward to prove conservation of momentum doesn't exist please enlighten me I'll all ears.

a golf swing starts from the ground up , just like tennis or baseball, please enlighten me if you have measured data to prove this to be wrong.
I'm not interested in someones word of belief , I want science and facts

Release (lag/wrist cock) is NOT caused by deceleration. That is a myth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinkler (Post 66678)

If there is no deceleration then lag/wrist cock would be sustained until well past the ball, and you wouldn't actually hit it! The arms have to decelerate for the wrist cock to be released surely?? It works the same for the rest of the sequence, hips/shoulders/arms yes? That's how I understand it.

"educating"? There is no "either or scenario" here. There is only misunderstanding and misconception. Our english language is being perverted....

PHYSICS:

1. (used with a sing. verb) The science of matter and energy and of interactions between the two, grouped in traditional fields such as acoustics, optics, mechanics, thermodynamics, and electromagnetism, as well as in modern extensions including atomic and nuclear physics, cryogenics, solid-state physics, particle physics, and plasma physics.
2. (used with a pl. verb) Physical properties, interactions, processes, or laws: the physics of supersonic flight.
3. (used with a sing. verb) Archaic The study of the natural or material world and phenomena; natural philosophy.

GEOMETRY

1.
a. The mathematics of the properties, measurement, and relationships of points, lines, angles, surfaces, and solids.
b. A system of geometry: Euclidean geometry.
c. A geometry restricted to a class of problems or objects: solid geometry.
d. A book on geometry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bioengine (Post 66726)

Daryl,
It Physics like come on, open up your mind here.
Your speaking about geometry.
This is a thread is on biomechanics isn't it.
So I'm educating people about biomechanics not geometry.

TGM is about goemetric golf not biomechanics.

No mind what data do you have to put forward to prove conservation of momentum doesn't exist pleas enlighten me I'll all ears.

a golf swing starts from the ground up , just like tennis or baseball, please enlighten me if you have measured data to prove this to be wrong.
I'm not interested in someones word of belief , I want science and facts

Quote:

Originally Posted by bioengine (Post 66726)

Whoa, I'm not criticizing Bio-Mechanics. Far from it. I look forward to learning about your findings. I agree that the Swing should be from the "Ground Up". Completely.

My criticisms are with your belief that TGM is not about Zone 1 (the Pivot) and other of your misrepresentations of TGM concepts.

Additionally you fail to acknowledge that different Delivery Paths are supported by different Pivots. Incompatibility. Circle Path and Straight Line Path do not use the same Pivot. I think that Bio-Mechanics should account for the Players choice. But your quest to find "more Power" disregards much of the subtlety that different Pivots provide. And Zero Pivot is an option.