[Yoda]

cdog.. your hands are attached to your forearms by the wrist. Since the hand
cannot rotate independent of the arm, they must rotate because of the
forearm's rotation.

Take notice.. wherever your forearm is in alignment to, the clubface is also.
Try rotating your forearms.. and see what happens. But you can bend, or cock
your hand and the clubface will still align with the forearm. All of this of
course will be relative to the grip on the club... the same as it would be if
the discussion was on the back of the left wrist.

Now.. I am not saying that the clubface does not align with the back of the
left wrist... but what I am saying is that the rotation of the clubface
cannot occur by the hands alone... in fact the hand cannot rotate the club at
all (unless you twirl it in your fingers). The only appendage capable of independent
rotation are the arms. The hand cannot rotate without the rotation of the
forearm or upper arm. It's bio-mechanical. And since the only way to rotate
the clubface is by rotating the hand, thusly it must be done by the arm.

All that being said.. the mind can be focused on the hands as accomplishing
the task.. but it is inaccurate to say the hands do any of the actual work.

The LOFT on the club can be altered by the hands.. and the clubs position
along the arc can be altered by the hands. It can even be thrown off the arc
by the hands (cocking/uncocking)... but the leading edge of the blade is
soley effected by the rotation of the forearms.


I think I've fairly well exhausted my point.

Ringer,

There is no argument here and hence no point for debate.

The Flat Left Wrist control of the Club has two distinct Actions. One is a Hinge
Action (Clubface Control) and the other is a Swivel Action
(Clubhead Control). Regarding the Hinge Action, Homer Kelley states
clearly in 2-G that "'Roll' is actually imparted by the turning torso
and/or the orbiting arms." Regarding the Swivel Action, he states
that it is a "true rotation of the Hands into Impact alignment by
Accumulator #3." Accumulator #3, of course, is the Left Arm and
Club. For the text-challenged among us, he even drew a Swivel Joint in
the Left Arm in the Golfer's Flail (Sketch 2-K #4 and #5).

No, Homer's position was not that the Hands originate the
Motions of the Clubface (Hinge Action) and the Clubhead (Swivel Action), only
that they control them. In fact, he said exactly that in 2-M-3:

"The Hands are strong, educated, adjustable Clamps attaching the Club to
the Arms for control of the Clubface alignments."

"So, the only absolutely essential muscular contribution of the Wrists
is 'holding on.'


Next 'Anti-TGM' topic for debate, please.





So, can we conclude that Gerry Hogans assertion that'foream rotation is
SOLELY responsible for clubface alignment' is incorrect?
Clearly Hing action, controled by the left wrist, imparts clubhead closing, with
or without forearm rotation. Even Horizontal Hinging is a 'full roll feel'
not an actual roll of the hands/forearms.

Yes, for the Swinger, there is the swivel from release to impact, and from
follow-through to Finish, but it does not substitute for proper hinge action.

As pointed out earlier: Homer Kelley states clearly in 2-G that "'Roll'
is actually imparted by the turning torso and/or the orbiting arms."

But he also said " Some players even execute Impact as exclusively a
Swivel (forearm rotation:my words) making clubhead alignment fleeting and
eratic." I know! I have tried it!

Triad


[Bold in last quote by Yoda.]





For the newbies, forgive me.

For the many, take what you can and throw the rest in the Incubator.
Keep studying TGM and re-read this post periodically. One day it will all
make perfect sense.

For the few, enjoy!

================================================== ===============

I am not familiar with Gerry Hogan or his quote. I am familiar with The
Golfing Machine. And in The Golfing Machine there is a Hinge
Action, and there is a Swivel Action.

The Hinge Action is the Left Hand and Arm Rotating about a Shoulder
Hinge Pin with the Left Wrist remaining Vertical (perpendicular) to the Axis
of Rotation. Whether that Axis is positioned Vertical (perpendicular) to a
Horizontal Plane, a Vertical Plane or an Inclined Plane, the Blade of the
Hinge (the Left Arm, Flat Left Wrist and Club, i.e., the Left Arm Flying
Wedge) must move around it in a circle. That means the Left Arm and Flat Left
Wrist must move, just as the blade of any hinge must move.

It does not mean that the Left Arm and Flat Left Wrist must rotate!
The blade of a hinge remains always perpendicular to its Plane of
Rotation. It must not -- indeed it cannot -- rotate, i.e.,
independently 'Turn' or 'Roll!' Even if the Clubface Closes, as it will
with Horizontal and Angled Hinging, this is simply the movement of the Arm
and Flat Left Wrist around the Axis of Rotation. It is not a true
Rotation of the Arm and Flat Left Wrist themselves.

To get the idea, extend your Left Arm and Flat Left Wrist straight out in
front of you (in a horizontal plane) and swing the entire unit back and forth
on this plane. Just like a swinging gate, right? The gate moves in a circle
about its Left Shoulder axis, but it does not 'turn' or 'roll,' i.e., twist
one way or another. Get the picture?

If, however, the Flat Left Wrist Turns (rotates to the right) and Rolls
(rotates to the left) while the Arm does not move, then you have a
Swivel Action. This is a true rotation of the Forearm.


So, with a Hinge Action, the Left Arm must move -- but
it does not rotate. With a Swivel Action, the Left Arm may
or may not move -- but the Swivelling Forearm makes a true rotation. Again,
this is not a Hinge Action, i.e., controlling the Clubface
Alignment through the Impact Interval by maintaining the Flat Left
Wrist perpendicular to the desired Plane of Motion (of the Clubface).
Instead, this is a Swivel Action, i.e., a true Rotation of the
Arm that positions the Clubface and Clubhead On Plane throughout the
remaining Sections of the Stroke.