When I describe a reactive pivot swing, I am simply describing an arm swing with a body set (the body falls forward before the arms swing the club through the impact zone). In other words, there is a pelvis shift left-laterally that happens before the arms swing down through the impact zone, but the pelvic motion doesn't pull the arms down. The arms swing down independently while the lower body is independently shifting left-laterally. That's what I perceive Shawn Clement is doing in his swing. He uses float loading and then simply uses his arms to pull the club down to the ball. While the arms are pulling the club down (event number 1) the pelvis is shifting left laterally (event number 2) and the final swing is a coordination of two independent movements (that are not causally connected). In an active pivot action swing, the pivot actually activates the downward movement of the left arm via the kinetic sequence. The left arm is catapulted off the chest wall by the pivot (pivot-activated release of PA#4) and not independently pulled down by arm/shoulder girdle muscles (arm-activated release of PA#4). In other words, in a pivot active swing action, the pivot causally causes the left arm to swing down to impact; while in a reactive pivot swing action there are two independent body actions that are time-coordinated.
12PB
Thanks for the link to the Allen Doyle swing video. I must try and mimic his swing actions. I love experimenting with different golf swing methods.
When I describe a reactive pivot swing, I am simply describing an arm swing with a body set (the body falls forward before the arms swing the club through the impact zone). In other words, there is a pelvis shift left-laterally that happens before the arms swing down through the impact zone, but the pelvic motion doesn't pull the arms down. The arms swing down independently while the lower body is independently shifting left-laterally. That's what I perceive Shawn Clement is doing in his swing. He uses float loading and then simply uses his arms to pull the club down to the ball. While the arms are pulling the club down (event number 1) the pelvis is shifting left laterally (event number 2) and the final swing is a coordination of two independent movements (that are not causally connected). In an active pivot action swing, the pivot actually activates the downward movement of the left arm via the kinetic sequence. The left arm is catapulted off the chest wall by the pivot (pivot-activated release of PA#4) and not independently pulled down by arm/shoulder girdle muscles (arm-activated release of PA#4). In other words, in a pivot active swing action, the pivot causally causes the left arm to swing down to impact; while in a reactive pivot swing action there are two independent body actions that are time-coordinated.
12PB
Thanks for the link to the Allen Doyle swing video. I must try and mimic his swing actions. I love experimenting with different golf swing methods.
Jeff.
Jeff . . . . I think there is some validity to what you have said above . . . . regarding independent arm motion and blasting off . . . Mr. Kelley distinguished between pivot and non-pivot delivery.
I would say that regardless of whether you choose to blast the arm off the chest or move it independently . . .the CRITICAL piece is that you do it in such away that the HANDS STAY ON THE SELECTED PLANE.
That is one problem I have when people refer to the left arm being "blasted off the chest" . . . well ok fine . . . but WHERE is the left arm blasted? Homer said that if he had to retitle the book he would have called it Plane G.O.L.F. One of the problems that I still struggle with as a swinger is actually blasting the arm in a way that it throws it out over the plane. You can simply spin the shoulders into the #4 pressure point pinning the left arm and NEVER RELEASE #4 . . . which results in a plane shift and bent plane line.
Homer said "accumulators have to release" . . . and they ideally release in such a way that the hands and the club stay on plane. At the top of the swing with startdown there is some "independence" I think with the hips sliding and tilting the axis and #4 releasing to keep the hands ON PLANE. My first introduction to the Golfing Machine was the Ben Doyle tapes which maybe I didn't understand or misrepresent but that navel seek elbow deal with major deeeeep pitch IS NOT RELEASING #4 OR #1 and causes I host of problems that I still struggle with (bobbing, underplane, flashing clubface, . . . ). Not good. Somehow you have to pivot AND GET THE HANDS GOING DOWN THE FACE OF THE PLANE. Monitor it all . ..
The dancer performing the horizontal eight dance certainly has hula hula flexibility.
What drill would you recommend for a golfer who has had spinal fusion surgery where all the lumbar vertebra were fused together preventing any rotary movement at the level of each lumbar vertebra? How can that golfer perform an active pivot golf swing that requires a moderate level of hula hula flexibility?
Jeff.
Jeff to answer your question in brief I would have to say.....MacDonald drills.
To answer it more fully I would say: Forget X factor, rotate your hips like Jones, Nicklaus or Snead (they did OK) and lift your left foot off the ground on the backswing. Understand that golf is a motion, a dance and that lag and pivot lag however small is what you are seeking.
I had the pleasure of spending the greater part of last week at Cuscowila with Lynn and my older brother, The Judge. (As some people from the Homecoming will know him). The Judge is mid sixties and twenty five years into a lower lumbar spinal fusion that was thought to last only ten years. Since the Homecoming and formal lessons from Luke and Lynn and informal lessons from Augusta Golf and Paul Hart the Judge has totally revolutionized his pivot. A thing he thought impossible given his flexibility.
My brother loves the MacDonald drills. For him it has been the answer to a
15 year fight with his pivot.
FYI Lynn is always saying that nobody is less flexible that himself. In your most recent photos you are actually taking farther back than Lynn are you not? Farther back than many accomplished golfers.
Jeff . . . . look at this motion . . . it's won major smackers and a couple of majors . . . doesn't get his arm way in or up on the backstroke . . . Can probably beat all but 1% or maybe even 1/10% of the members on this website.
notice where his hands are at his top . . . just in of his torso . . . but he really releases #4 and he doesn't do much rotating at all . . . just kinda dippy slides it thru there . . . keeps it pretty much on the elbow plane the whole swing. You can get to his top . . . just take your arms in as much as you can without the left arm breaking down . . . AND TURN YOUR HIPS. Short arm swing = gooooooood. All that elbow releasing stuff is tough to return to the same spot every time.
Bucket,
You can have anybody on the site for a partner. I'll take Doyle and play you for whatever you want, for as many days as you want, as long as it is tight off the tee. I'll just ride in the cart and cheer my man on. Senior majors for ........
You can have anybody on the site for a partner. I'll take Doyle and play you for whatever you want, for as many days as you want, as long as it is tight off the tee. I'll just ride in the cart and cheer my man on. Senior majors for ........
I'll take Mike O . . . . if you make sure that they leave the rakes around the bunkers . . . we'll just play y'all once and see how you feel about the bet after that. See you Sat. at 8. Mike usually brings "homemade" breakfast too. His wife Greg or whatever his/her name is now will want to ride in the cart too . . . hope he want be a problem.
I agree that the primary need is to get the hands down-and-out on the plane whatever the method of releasing PA#4.
It is very interesting that the golf style that keeps the left arm across the chest (keeping PA#4 loaded) for the longest time is the Hardy OPS. However, the Hardy OPS golfer manages to keep the clubshaft on-plane during the time period that PA#4 remains loaded because of the bent-over posture and their rotary pivot style where the upper and lower torso turn as a single unit.
OBLeft
Thanks for he advice. I have just received the Alignment Golf DVDs (which I haven't yet viewed) and I will look into the MacDonald drills.
I now see your quest for golf knowledge in a different light. If you are seeking an improved action given your physical limitations then you Sir are a practical seeker like the rest of us golf nut bars.
Here is a drill that I love but please exercise extreme caution given your back issues.
-with a 9 iron
-no ball
-from fix and with EA turned on
-turn right hip back (pre setting a cleared right hip for the back AND the thru)
-slide your hips several inches targetwards until you knee is approx over your left foot. (your weight is now preset to the left and your head is still centered). In a mirror you will appear very Hogan like.
-with light lag pressure take an easy 3/4 swing (Which is all one ever really needs assuming you get to right shoulder high, top). Hold your right hip back in startdown and release.
If this tweaks your back a little then make sure you allow for the release of your right hip, letting the body pull it around post impact. If it hurts a lot abandon the drill and axis tilt in favour of circle path albeit with a cleared right hip.
Its a strange feeling at first, with the right hip held back. You will notice that your divots are straight however! Yes sir.
If you are able to this without hurting your back try a few shots with easy lag pressure. The contact is addictive. I fell so much in love with this drill that I tried to play a round with it. My back was a mess after 9 holes and I had to abandon it, but the drill remains as my primary anti cut shot therapy. A great stance to assume when doing start down waggles too.
While the preset drill can be harmful if over done, I believe that with shorter shots and easy lag pressure, its an excellent way to ingrain these alignments for use in a non harmful more dynamic full swing.
I no longer see the swing as being as rotational as I once did. Id be interested to know how this works for you.
I agree that the primary need is to get the hands down-and-out on the plane whatever the method of releasing PA#4.
It is very interesting that the golf style that keeps the left arm across the chest (keeping PA#4 loaded) for the longest time is the Hardy OPS. However, the Hardy OPS golfer manages to keep the clubshaft on-plane during the time period that PA#4 remains loaded because of the bent-over posture and their rotary pivot style where the upper and lower torso turn as a single unit.
OBLeft
Thanks for he advice. I have just received the Alignment Golf DVDs (which I haven't yet viewed) and I will look into the MacDonald drills.
Jeff.
Jeff . . . . Don't know much about Hardy's stuff . . . . but I would submit that this guy IS releasing #4 or at least it looks that way to me.
I think the holding on to #4 the longest pattern is the one that a certain someone says . . . . have your elbow seek your navel and have your head bob backwards as a result of having to get so much axis tilt to actually get to the ball . . .and then rotate the face to the ground and call it "hinging" or maintaining a flat left wrist. It is the one that raped me . . .
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