Right arm participation vs Right arm thrust
 

Just something i wanted to share as it was something i learned recently.

Basically it's like this, i'm a swinger who at times will add right arm participation in the swing. It adds swing speed, ball speed, and significant difference when i "use it." Now how am i using this "right arm participation" you ask? Basically how Tomasello says in his videos. I am simply consciously un-bending my right arm around release point to create more speed. The key to this is to simply use your tricep muscle. DO NO UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE "PUSH" OFF OF PP #1. It won't work. Now maybe this is switting or over riding centrifugal force or whatever, but it works.

Also sometimes i will purposely use a "hitting" motion and when i do this i will "push" off of pp #1 and use right arm thrust into the ball. Works great.

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The key is that you can still easily perform a horizontal hinge with what i call "right arm participation" without any real manipulation. However if you are using "right arm thrust" properly and using the angle of approach you should only end up using an angled hinge unless you are doing something weird with your right forearm rotation.

Take this info for what it's worth but it's just something i've learned and can demonstarte and i wanted to share.

So...

right arm participation = un bend your right arm by using the tricep muscle

right arm thrust = un bend your right arm and add thrust by pushing against pp #1

Jim,

Since it's not an active thrust against PP#1, do you think the right tricep action may just be reducing the inertia of the right forearm, allowing the left to swing faster?

Jim,

If "right arm participation" = unbending your right arm using the tricep muscle, I'm curious how what you've described is different from extensor action as Homer defined it?

6-B-1-D EXTENSOR ACTION is exclusively the steady effort to straighten the bent Right Arm

Thanks!

Extensor action is Non-Accelerating the primary lever assembly

Right Arm Drive is Accelerating both lever assemblies


The key is Nonaccelerating vs. Accelerating


Acceleration is a change in distance over a change in time


Hard to pick up visually for the untrained eye...;)

OK, So then a better question for Jim would have been...is his "right arm unbending" a steady or an accelerating action?

The reason I ask is because it seems that if you accelerate the right arm unbending at all, won't you feel the results of that action through a pressure point? If so and it's not pp1, then which pp is it?

1-F RIGHT ARM OR LEFT The “mystery” of the Mechanics of Golf fades away when Right Arm participation is understood (6-B-1). Whether its participation is active or passive is difficult to detect visually because in either case the Left Arm is ALWAYS SWINGING and the Right Forearm is ALWAYS DRIVING. . . .

This, alone, does not properly separate “Hitters” and “Swingers” because it is possible to “Swing” the Club with either Arm but only the Right Arm can actually “Hit.” See 10-19. However, you will save yourself much anguish by using the Right Hand just for sensing and controlling acceleration and the Left Hand just for sensing and controlling alignments.

7-3 STROKES – BASIC . . . The Elbow must always be someplace and as there are only three defineable locations there are three Major Basic Strokes – Punch, Pitch, and Push (10-3). . . . The Elbow must always be someplace and as there are only three defineable locations there are three Major Basic Strokes – Punch, Pitch, and Push (10-3). . . . So the Right Forearm must leave – and precisely return to – its own Fix Position (7-8) “Angle of Approach” (regardless of the true Clubhead Angle of Approach) because both procedures will produce identical Clubhead Delivery Lines. . . .

, it is absolutely MANDATORY that, Hitting or Swinging, it is the Right Forearm – not just the Right Hand and/or Clubshaft – that must be thrown, or driven, into Impact per 7-2-3.

Acceleration = dv/dt
 

Actually it is a change in velocity (dv) over a change in time (dt). Sorry about the nitpicking, but just trying to make sure we have a physics compliant site.;) :D

Let's have a physics compliant site;) :D

You're right.....Thanks for your correction

Average Acceleration = Change in Velocity divided by a Change in Time

Now are we talking:

Linear or Angular Motion

The formulas vary slightly for both

Theta = Arc Length divided by the radius

Omega = Average Angular Velocity equals a change in theta divided by a change in time

Alpha = Average Angular Acceleration equals a change in omega divided by a change in time

Arc Acceleration = alpha times the radius

Centripetal acceleration = Omega squared times the radius

Centripetal Force = Mass times Omega Squared times the Radius

Centrifugal Force = Newtons 3rd Law to Centrifugal Force

Documented Source: "Biomechanics of Sport and Exercise" 2nd editon, Peter Mc Ginnis, Quick reference equations, p.1.


Why weren't these formulas used in the Yellow Book? Bibliography? Documented Sources/ Footnotes?

That's Ok.....I believe Homer anyway....28 years of work very impressive...but I work for a University...If I submitted that wonderful piece of work...the Dissertation Committee would have told me nice try and re-tee!!!

Happy Equations
 

Those equations look mighty fine although strange to my eye. I have never seen them written out in English. I am so used to the Greek letters / mathematical forms, I had to re-read these several times to understand. :eek:

It is an accelerating action that i only start to do consciously around what my brain interpret's to be release point (hip high).

Honestly, it is too quick of a motion to really feel anything anywhere. I am just trying to wallop the ball :)

Sorry don't know how to type Greek....My keyboard is American English as my British friends always take a jab with their light saber.........


But they are legit and documented......Stragiht from a Graduate Level Textbook used here at the Universtiy that is taught by Dr. Brian Bergerman...who has a Ph.D in Biomechanics and is one of the world's leading experts in the ther track and field event of "pole vaulting".....

BTW ...Dr. Bergerman sat on the Dissertation Committee for Dr. Ralph Mann the "Father of Model Golf".....First Question Dr. B asks...'So what do you think of Ralph Mann's work?"....Well I would never use the "Mean" to come up with a Model...I would classify them into "modal classes"...For example hitters and swingers...Pure hitters and switters...Pure Swingers and Right Arm???? Not gonna say it!!!!=;

Push vs. Pull
 

We have talked about this before... but I heard this from a man that is very physics savy... Is the horse Pulling the wagon, or Pushing on the collar? You would have to ask the horse to know.

Technically... there may be little or no difference, but FEEL-wise there usually is.

If the center of mass of the object to be moved is behind the force used, it is a pull.

If the center of mass of the object to be moved is in front of the force used, it is a push.

The horse is pulling because the center of mass (sweetspot or cart) is ALWAYS behind the force being used. That is what 'lag' is all about.

Pulling has directional advantages. Pushing has power advantages.

The golf swing is always technically a PULL, from a physics standpoint.

The difficulty is that the human machine uses a lever that extends from left hand to right hand such that the 'feel' will tend to be in one side or the other.

The clubHEAD is always being pulled.

The handle may be pulled, or be pushed, depending on which side of the lever, which side of the coin, the body uses.

It could be viewed that the horse pushes against the harness and the ground.

ldeit

That is correct Lee and, in so doing, it creates the motive power that pulls the cart.

Whenever the motive power is in front of the object being moved it is pulling. If it in the rear, then it is pushing.

This principle applies no matter how that power is generated.

Good to meet you recently; hope you're keeping well.

The key is where the center of mass of the object to be moved is located. The center of mass for a cart is not the horses harness nor her shoes ;)

The pressure points are always leading the clubheads center of mass downplane. Always leading the sweetspot.

If you are just utilizing the right tricep to add acceleration, as opposed to pushing with PP1, would this be an example of Right Arm Swinging, utilizing the right elbow as opposed to the left shoulder??

No, because the left shoulder is still my low point.

It has more to do with "magic of the right forearm" in TGM.

Don't mistake the drive to straighten the right elbow with right arm muscle power. It is a thin line, I know, but the right arm wants to be straight- it has since the take-away. Let it after low point and make it happy. It is acc2 and acc3 that is smacking the ball in a Swing Stroke.

True, but if you add to that right arm straightening as i am suggesting you will create more speed if you mash the ball right. It is a valid way to create some more "umph."

I'm not saying it's the most accurate way to do things are something you should do 100% of the time, but it is a valid option even if most don't agree with it *cough* shoulder turn takeaway *cough* ;)