tracing plane line with right/rear pointer finger
 

I have heard a little about this but can anyone elaborate?

At the bottom of a flat inclined plane (a pitched roof) - where the plane intersects into the ground is a straight plane line (a gutter). Regardless of how the plane is tilted this plane line never changes and is therefore adjustable during the stroke (plane shifts).

Look at the picture here demonstrating stroke geometry:



Now remember the clubshaft lays full length on this tilted plane so we need to keep the clubhead pointing at the straight plane line. The clubhead or more specifically the sweetspot is monitored by the hands in pp3 and you trace the plane line with pp3.

Remember the secret of golf - sustain the line of compression - sustain the line that the sweetspot travels through as the ball compresses on the clubface. All you have to do then is add a hinge action to control the clubface and then you got real G.O.L.F.

Look at Lynn here....



He traced the plane line with the right forefinger and arrived at the top with the sweetspot, the no.3 pressure point and the right shoulder turned all on plane. The pp3 and thus the sweetspot should ALWAYS be on plane.

Hope this helps....

Thanks, Mathew!
 

Another great post, Mathew. Your fabulous illustrations really help get these mission-critical concepts across.

Is this a cool place or what!

Still a fanatic, eh Lynn?

What's In A Name
 

Actually, birdie, I changed that to 'revolutionary.'

And I'm toying with the idea of 'innovator.'

Something like Bernard Baruch, the Wall Street legend who went from being known as first a 'gambler,' then a 'speculator' and finally, a 'financier,' all without changing in the least what he actually did.

Ah, the power of a word.

your illustrations
 

Your illustrations are "THE BOMB." You have created perfect illustrations, and will help many to SEE the things that Homer WROTE. It's truly EXCEPTIONAL work! Thank you for sharing it.

I'll second that........and now if you can make the wedges fly on that hingeboard of yours I think I'll cry[-o<:D

i'll cry, too
 

I'm tearing up just thinking about it. :lol: :lol:

making those wedges fly.....
 

I got a plan to do the wedges.... trust me :)

and thanks guys :)

Yoda~

I am viewing these photos with the red line emphasis and listening to Mr. Kelley's comment that the pictured plane is the clubshaft plane but the one we are working with is the sweet spot plane. Should one "program" these photos with the expectation that it will benefit clubhead control?

DRW

Painted Pictures (In The Mind)
 

Actually, with the dowels, the Sweetspot is at the base of the dowel. When you point the dowel you are pointing the Sweetspot, so there is no conflict of 'Clubhead' and 'Clubshaft.' But let me extend your question to the Geometry of the Stroke Mathew has illustrated.

Clubhead Control (Lag Pressure) is assigned to one of the Pressure Points in the Hands (1-L-B), usually the #3 Pressure Point (right index finger). And Clubhead Lag Feel is Sweetspot Feel, not Clubshaft Feel.

The player monitors the Clubhead (and its Sweetspot) by Lag Pressure Feel only, never directly (5-0). That includes its On Plane Line of Flight (2-N-0). Thus, the On Plane Geometry of the orbiting Sweetspot is likewise assigned to the #3 Pressure Point (as guided by the Right Forearm's Tracing of the Straight Plane Line per 5-0).

It is that On Plane Geometry that Mathew has so beautifully illustrated and that students should find quite helpful in their efforts to Drive (Hitting) or Drag (Swinging) the Club Down Plane to Full Extension.

Yoda~

Your comments are appreciated. However, for me, I am left with the impression/feeling that the dowels are the shaft.

After two readings of the book and months of forum participation (are there enough adjectives to describe appreciation for the forum content and guidance of TGM leaders like Lynn Blake?) my commitment for a third reading of the book was anticipated to be just " a piece of cake." To my surprise the wheels started to spin in Chapter 2 and traction wasn't established after listening to Mr. Kelley's comments on the audio's .

In transition where many experience problems, Mr. Kelley's advice to forget the clubshaft plane, the 2-C illustrations and the 10-5 photos stimulate meaningful questions. I feel positive about what I am concluding but just can't find reinforcement for validation.

Thanks for the response. I will stay "tuned-in."

DRW

Clubshaft Rotation Around The Sweet Spot
 

DRW,

You must forget about the Clubshaft Plane. If for no other reason, the Clubshaft simply cannot stay on it.

As the Sweetspot moves Up, Back and In On Plane, the Shaft rotates off its own Plane and onto the Sweetspot's Plane. For Swingers, that Rotation is accomplished during the Start Up Swivel. The Clubshaft then remains on the Sweetspot Plane during the remainder of the Backstroke and also into the Downstroke until the Release Swivel once again rotates the Shaft around the Sweetspot and back onto its own Plane. For Hitters, that Rotation is gradual on the Backstroke -- the Pivot and Arm Swing bring the Left Wrist and its Angled Hinge Action into an On Plane alignment at the Top -- and the Downstroke Rotation mirrors that of the Backstroke.

The Shaft and Sweet Spot remain on their respective Planes during the Hinge Action (until the end of the Follow-Through, i.e., the Both Arms Straight position). Then, the Finish Swivel -- for both Swingers and Hitters -- rotates the Shaft once again onto the Sweetspot Plane for the Finish.

So, forget about the Shaft Plane.

Point the Sweetspot.

Or, in drill, point the Dowel's end because it is the Sweetspot substitute.

Best of all, learn to Feel the Lag Pressure (of the trailing Sweetspot) and Trace with it using your Right Forearm and #3 Pressure Point while keeping your Left Wrist Flat though Impact.

This is the essence of The Golfing Machine®.

This is THE BEST DESCRIPTION of HOW the Swinger and Hitter arrive at their respective Tops that you'll ever read. Superb stuff Collards! With Swinging the Shaft and Sweet Spot are quickly in the SAME Plane due to Start Up Swivel. Where you gonna get this other than . . . The Golfing Machine!

It's about freakin time..I've been askin for this reply for nearly a year.....Thanx....Your posts are startin to have some real "gusto" as of late!!! Can you keep the pace????


AS

Lynn, is that description of yours above (post #13) also provide an accurate depiction of why the shaft does indeed rotate around the sweetspot?

Can it (and/or SHOULD it) be explained through plane angle? That is, the clubshaft must shift to the sweetspot plane going back and once again after impact?

This has always been a slight point of confusion for me. (This may or may not be a clear question, please let me know!)

Passin' Time
 

It takes time to write, Annikan, and over the holidays, I've had some time. I promise you, I've had as much fun writin' as you have had readin'! :)

Why The Clubshaft Must Rotate Around The Sweet Spot
 

As components of the Left Arm Flying Wedge, the Flat Left Wrist, the Clubshaft and the Sweetspot must all remain in the same plane, i.e., the plane of the perpendicular Left Wristcock motion. This sounds complicated, but it is not. For example, when hammering a nail, it is easy to see that the left hand and the hammer handle and the hammer head all lie in the same vertical plane.

On the Backstroke, the entire Left Arm Flying Wedge Turns to the Sweetspot's Inclined Plane of Motion (2-N-0) and, on the Downstroke, Rolls from it. First, the Left Wrist rotates (Turns) from its Vertical (to the ground) Condition to parallel to the Sweetspot Plane. As it does, the Shaft must likewise rotate in order to maintain its In Line Condition with the Left Arm (Rhythm per 6-B-3-0). Similarly, on the Downstroke, as the Left Wrist rotates (Rolls) back to its Vertical Condition, the Shaft must also rotate.

Otherwise, the Left Arm Flying Wedge -- the In Line Condition of the Left Wrist, Clubshaft and Sweetspot -- cannot be maintained. Then, there is Steering and Quitting.The Left Wrist Bends; Rhythm is disrupted; and the Line of Compression can no longer be sustained.

Nice....Gusto...Me Likey....Me want more "SWEETSPOT"...

I don't believe I have seen this description but, my search skills seem to be lacking. As always another educational experience!

I can and want to experience/feel the shaft for the preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane (10-13-D);the Wedges (6-B-3-0-1);The Basic Strokes (7-3); and the hands down the inclined plane (7-23). However, from release into impact there is no clubhead feel with the dowel. Maybe I am expecting too much from the dowel drill.

DRW

The point of the dowel drills is to get your mind OUT of the clubhead - which is why there is no clubhead on the dowel. You can use things like tennis racquets to show clubface without clubshaft. Each of those aids is useful in demonstrating one Function, be in clubshaft or clubface (or clubhead I suppose).

OK, but why would one point the dowel at the Impact Plane line when the Inclined Plane of the clubshaft is well inside the ball at ground level (ref 10-5, 10-23, 1-L))?


DRW

Dowels -- Training Wheels For Boss Hands
 

The Golfing Machine® is a system entirely dependent upon Educated Hands. And emphatically, per 5-0, the Hands are not educated...

"...until [they] no longer consciously Monitor the Clubhead or the Body -- only themselves, and automatically dictate total Component compliance with Delivery Path and Delivery Line requirements."

With the dowel drills, you mention you may be "expecting too much." Actually, you don't know what to expect. Not to worry: the gripped-down dowels will teach you.

In Line Left Forearm.

On Plane Right Forearm.

Together, Tracing the Straight Plane Line.

In this case...

Less is more.

Tracing The Plane Line With The Sweetspot
 

The dowel has a Sweetspot at its tip.

The Golf Club has a Sweetspot in the middle of the Clubface.

The Right Forearm and #3 Pressure Point uses both to Trace the Straight Plane Line.

If one takes into account the shaft droop, which aligns the sweetspot w/ the handle right after release - and makes the club in effect a faximile of a dowel - the answer is yes?

One should trace the (Straight) Impact Plane line?

Sorry if I'm asking the obvious, but am recovering from flu and my reading comprehension is around double bogey.


Vaako

I think clubhead droop has greatly been decreased (not eliminated in total) but reading mfg's info on shafts, new technology and of course the force behind the swing will in fact minimize it from I have read.

Even if that is not completely true, clubhead droop on an iron for example would have to move the sweetspot more than 1.5 inches to get it inline with the shaft, changing the longitudial center line of gravity. That is a lot of stress on a shaft and would greatly call into question the torquing experienced which would impact clubface alignment.

I think the correct answer is NO. Clubhead droop doesn't do it.

What To Trace Through Impact
 

Normally, the Impact Plane Line -- the Baseline of your Inclined Plane -- will sit on top of the Target Line. So, just Trace the Target Line, and you automatically will trace the Impact Plane Line. You also will be Tracing the Low Point Plane Line that lies a bit further Down Plane from the Impact Plane Line (and parallel to it).

Martee, I can take a normal grip of my GW, put the head under a big table and easily make it bend the needed 1.5". So, the needed forces are small.

Somebody posted a good pic about droop in rec-golf long time a go - you could clearly see how sweetspot and handle are aligned, thanks to droop. Could probably google it up, if you want.

Seem it was just some fog about diffrent plane lines, after all - thanks, Yoda.


Vaako

Just a note - Your test you performed was testing the stiffness of the shaft. Long time ago, there was a similar method used to measure shaft stiffness. Lock the grip end, apply a weight to the other end of the shaft and based on how much it 'Deflected' that would then determine if it was a stiff, regular, etc.

Droop is a function of the stiffness of the shaft based on the forces being applied through acceleration. The Major force will be CF.

It might be easier to see how much it has to deflect by taking a dowel and hold it along the sweetspot plane angle and then picture what this has to be at impact and what it would do for a given swing plane/angle.

Right Rear Pointer Finger?
 

You'll have to forgive me, but I don't have the luxury of time to read through the entire thread, and maybe my point has been made already. However,I have found that the right rear pointer (index) finger, with the right wrist in a LEVEL configuration, will point back toward the stance line, instep, or even the heel line through the impact zone.

EC

Agree totally.

Lost me here, am still not firing on all cylinders. I thought your 1.5" was close enough for governament work?

I can easily align sweetspot with handle - w/ dowel or w/o dowel. Dowel makes it easier to confirm the alignment in the mirror, thou.

The point I was trying to make was; it takes rather few N's to bend the shaft, hence the huge amount of N's produced by CF will bend the saft and in-line grip and sweet spot.

Reading your things clicking post made me realize you can trace any Straight ..... Line. The operative word is Straight.

Good to hear you are making things click. I'm still waiting on my 2005 epiphany deliveries. :(


Vaako

This may be inconsequential to the plane line tracing discussion, but from the clubmaking forums I frequent I have seen the following regarding clubhead/shaft lead (bending forward toward target) and droop:

-The maximum amount of lead or droop is determined by the Center of Gravity (CoG = Sweetspot?) of the head. Theoretically, the shaft should be able to bend no more than in-line with the CoG.
-This maximum amount of lead or droop is by no means always guaranteed and is dependent on swing and shaft characteristics.
-While the centrifugal force is primarily reponsible for this bending toward an in-line condition with the CoG, it is also creating a force that pulls outward (away from the golfer) which creates an effect called "centrifugal stiffening" with the net result being that the forces requried to bend a shaft in motion (in a rotational sense) can be much higher than those required to bend a shaft at rest.

Can you give some pointers to "centrifugal stiffening "discussion? I've been ignoring club building forums for some time and quick googleing seems to point to useless abstacts.


Vaako

Vaako -

For shaft info, the two forums I frequent are the Tom Wishon forum and a Yahoo group called SpineTalkers. Lots of discussion about droop, lead, FLO, etc. Wishon also will have a clubmaker fitting book coming out in a couple of months that is supposed to cover shaft dynamics in some detail.

Start w/ these, thanks.


Vaako

With all due respect Master...and I would accept correction...
But to me the components of the "Wedges"...Would include:

Left Arm Flying Wedge
The Hinge Pin
The Hinge Blade
The Strap Hinge
The entire Left Arm
The #3 Accumulator
The #2 Accumulator
The #2 Pressure Point
The Base of Left Thumb...1/2 of the #1 PP
The Clubshaft

Right Forearm Flying Wedge
The Right Elbow Location
The Right Forearm
The Level Right Wrist
The Right Wrist Bend
The cup of the right hand palm ...the other 1/2 of the #1 Pressure Point
The #3 Pressure Point
The LCG or "Sweetspot" Plane..

The reason why the Clubshaft is part of the LAFW is Wrist Action rotates the shaft during "Start-Up" swivel for the swinger...while the right forearm hold the tracing of the sweetspot...Which is my second point you trace with the sweetspot, the #3Pressure Point and the Right forearm..which IMO are the components of the RFFW...


so...LAFW...Shaft....RFFW....Sweetspot

Go ahead and correct me if I am wrong!!!!

The Sweetspot -- The Invisible Basic
 

The Sweetspot lies in the plane of both the Left Arm and the Right Forearm Flying Wedges. Except during Impact, the Clubshaft is its visible proxy in both cases, especially when the Clubface is turned On Plane.

I knew you'd have a better perspective..Thanx

The Flying Wedges -- Bits And Pieces
 

Annikan,

I love your two lists of Flying Wedge components. Good stuff!