Originally Posted by EdZ (Post 72908)

Without driving Bucket too nuts....

What Ben does works because of his grip. If you dont have a stronger left hand, I agree with your view - forget it - but if you do, you can add some serious mass to impact with that angle, and that hip motion.

His move is based on a grip taken 'naturally' at impact fix. His impact fix, the way the left hand hangs down to align the left arm wedge, and the right arm wedge.

I don't debate the usefulness of describing a F/L/V left wrist for many, but some may benefit from looking at things from the left arm wedge. That is what Ben is doing IMO.

Not saying that is good/bad, the way to do it, just that is what I see in his move.

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 72909)

Who has that much angle that late though . . . that you've ever heard of? Plus the face is looking at the ground.

Seems like a good way to swing if you wanna hit the ball low and don't care where it goes.

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 72902)

Another observation . . . . People observe that Hogan "held the angle" more than anyone . . . YOU TELL ME WHO'S DOING THE HOLDING HERE?

Frame #3 in Doyles deal was my first introduction to the Golfing Machine . . . I tried to get that . . . achieved it . . . it has been without question THE WORST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO MY GOLF GAME . . . if someone tries to get you to get that much trigger delay . . . run like you hear banjo music . . . it did something unseemly to my game . . . I still can't get it out of my system even thoug I know it's wrong. You face has to do sooooo much you can hit the golf ball anywhere and I MEAN ANYWHERE.

compare Doyles frame #3 to the second pic of Hogan at a similar point in the stroke . . . if Doyle had taught Hogan to look like frame #3 . . . . he'd have never gotten outta the caddy yard. True DEATH MOVE. Notice how Doyles head is tilting back and his left arm gets all t-rex shrunk up . . . it has too . . . if he doesn't shrink up his radius the club is going to crash into the ground behind the ball. Doyle is not releasing any of the accumulators starting with #4 . . . he's getting to the ball by tilting his shoulders backwards . . . Accumulators RELEASE . . ACCUMULATORS RELEASE . . . see Hogan . . . . Hogan set a bunch of angle . . . and he RELEASED IT . . . somebody else is HOLDING ON . . . it's RELEASE 4-1-2-3 . . . not hold #4 hold #1 tilt back and flash #2 and flash #3.

LOOK AT THE FACE HERE!!!! IT'S LOOKIN AT THE FREAKIN GROUND!!!!!! His supporters will say "Awww come in he was 70 years old and he hit that ball a little fat." UH NO SIR . . . he may be 70 but he was strong enough in his hands to hang on to #2 with the club parallel to the ground with his hands mid body . . . this is what HAS TO HAPPEN. BANE OF MY GOLFING EXISTENCE. Sorry to get on my soap box . . . BUT THIS AIN'T THE GOLFING MACHINE!!!! Don't buy it ever.

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 72913)

Hey Bucket, those are great Pics.

I doubt that Ben Doyle ever hit a Shot Fat. The King of Snap Release. Someone should make a Movie about him. :salut:

Ben Hogan is the greatest Golfer to have ever lived. :)

Originally Posted by EdZ (Post 72911)

Lots of guys have that much angle, but the only reason Ben keeps it late is the amount of axis tilt hit adds.

Couples is the only person I can think of that grips it closer to how Ben does, and he's done alright (again, without as much axis tilt)

As long as the finish swivel is after both arms straight, the face can face the ground without issues.

Originally Posted by mb6606 (Post 72914)

I have to wonder whether Ben would have been even greater using the strong single action grip??

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 72916)

I'm shaking my head in disbelief. :laughing9

I had a three hour lesson with Ben about 2 years ago. I watched him do some pretty amazing things. I don't remember his grip. :laughing9

Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 72918)

Like what D? Tell us about your lesson.

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 72916)

I'm shaking my head in disbelief. :laughing9

I had a three hour lesson with Ben about 2 years ago. I watched him do some pretty amazing things. I don't remember his grip. :laughing9

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 72919)

We're not allowed to threadjack. I want to hear more "Bucket Analysis".