The problem is. If it doesn't conform to the rules, of the hinge, of the wedges, flat left no bend or roll, bent right, no cock or turn. Then it may look good but won't work FOREVER. Like Phil Mickleson, some days great some not no mater how hard U practice.

You'll find all that (excvept the PM analysis) in the book.

HB

"Rocking Horse"
 

Based on my best 10 holes ever, at 1 under, Hula-Hula, Stationary Head, where the belly button shifts right and left thinking "Target, Balance, and Lag." :golfcart:


ICT

I can only attempt to infer what you are implying by your previous post, if you are saying that my swing may run into the possible pitfalls of Philly mick well I can only say that i have practiced hard on the hinge motion and under the watchful eye of an AI and with a high speed camera, unfortunately I have not seen my instructor lately as he is in a different state for the time being (he has the hi speed, mine broke) so currently im using the iphone which is not capable of the high speed frame rates that make seeing whats truly happening down there possible, it is obviously an inferior recording device and it isn't close-up enough IMO to really be able to analyze my hinging precisely, so i would ask that you take the iphones camera capability into consideration.

Analyze my swing there I think it would make homer proud

Whatcha think Lynn?

No problem at all. Your swing is great. I only asked because when U mentioned snap release technique I wondered if you saw it needed any compensations.

HB

I don't follow you HB please elaborate . Snap should not require a
Compensation IMO.

The geometry of the power package needs lots of thought. Daryl has been on that project for awhile. I would love to see his results. I have though TGM and HK best contribution lies in this Power package geometry. There are rules. The left wedge is flat, the back of the left hand and the left wrist can only cock and uncock and the left wedge "assembled" rolls from off the plane to perpendicular to the chosen plane- that is a left wedge decision. The right flying wedge has a fixed bent right wrist and is in effect (swinging) [fanned- CORRECTION-SLAPPED] into impact on plane.
The is a lot morer thought I have here but that is enough fo me to comment on snap release.
I feel/see that "many" who try and get a deep or any snap in fact bend and roll either or both wrists to get their hands down for later release. This could be bad?? HK mentions so much but he "spoke" in a monitone making it hard to judge good from bad (my words)

I dont know if that lends any clarity to the WHY of my questions and thought

Thanks OB
HB

what I said; The post below

\/
\/
\/

"Snap release alters little geometrically(cocked right wrist) but magnifies the physics"

Cocked right wrist was my own addition the rest is from the book

Truly the geometry is still sound just with a very sharp release requires ultimate timing and precision to reap it's benefits but it may become effortless as the aiming point is mastered making it deadly powerful and consistent ala hogan

Hungry bear snap release does not require any bend or roll only a bit of cocked right wrist

Remember the golf swing is not just geometry but also physics u must have a balance

That was my impression too, but I believe Homer thought you could do a snap release with a frozen bent, level right wrist. And I also believe Yoda agrees on that.

I was uncertain about this before but now - I dunno!!

Bernt r that is why I pointed put that that was my own addition but as far as I can tell I think it does require a cocked right wrist but I could be wrong and suspect I am but homer does say the geometry is altered

A right handed Engineering grad. to a left handed Engineer- I speak only right handed.

Thoughts:
The face only rolls about 30 deg - for horizontal hinge - It is on the plane at top and the plane is at ~60 deg. so the "roll" is about 30 deg to be perpendicular to the horizontal plane. It reaches that point about the point the shaft becomes parallel to the plane line.

A sequenced release is not one ,#3, following the other, #2, It is trigonometric. The club on a flat plane making a circular motion. so the sequence release is like sine, cosine, two functions 90 deg out of phase. #2 starts vertical releas quickly and slows down, #3 starts slow and accelerates

Why wouls one intend to get out of machine alignment to change the release?

Want a small pulley- Raise your hands.

The motion should be smooth and even- top through both arms streight -with Rhythm.

HB

Hungrybear why do u think the adjustments for snap release is incorrect the geometry is altere however it is still sound in it's own wayalso the number three is not really picking up speed from a slow start rather it is a transfer if momentum sustaining the centrifugal force

Also from parallel to parallel standard wrist action the face rotates 180 degrees.true hinge is strictly during the impact interval, rotating an actual very little amount during that very short period.

Compare rates of release not velocity.

hb

Has nothing to do with wrist action other than holding the face perpendicular to the associated plane. ie. that is 0 deg.

HB

The face is not perpendicular to the associated plane that would be single wrist action also I'm not sure what u mean by compare release rates not velocity??

Off Topic????
 

I think I may have dragged this thread off-topic which was;

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/post77526-1.html

And, I don't want to do that.

My thoughts are about clubface impact alignments and closing rates. The snap release, or any release that has a hightened roll rate into impact makes it harder to keep my drives in the County. One degree error at 300 yards is more than 5 yards. the cup is about 1 deg at a 25 foot putt. Thats the rub, it's hard enough reproducing a flat left wrist without trying to time the point it is flat while rolling through impact. The great ball strikers have clubface alignment for a long time. How many greats used a snap?

HB

Hungry bear idk if u wereon that thread how many greats usedsnap but that was my point very few greats used snap most use random sweep and u are correct the swivel can Ve harder to time because it is so fast and instant like I Said the snap release requires precision and timing to reap it's benefits which can be only marginally if at all more powerful than a random sweep procedure

I'm not sure what it means to "have clubface alignment" to what? The pros are not holding the alignment the majority of them are dual hotizontal hinging some of them are trying to hold the face open but there is nothing in the book about holding the clubface alignment do u mean angled hinging? One to think about though hb the aiming point is very well suited and in fact required for te snap release once the aiming point is mastered the timing issues may cease to exist. Also the roll is actually the same for the huge action it's the swivel that happens much faster once your hands are turned on plane and have drug down to snap release point they must swivel into hinge action much quicker than say a random sweep does. Also i get your point but no one uses snap release in putting and few use horizontal hinging. putting is not a good example. Remember although snap release has a quick swivel centrifugual force when utilized will automatically align the face any swinger cannot be worried about timin the face to be Square because his hands ought not be doing it rather it's centrifugal force aligning te clubface naturally producing the dual horizontal hinge by the orbitig arms and turning torso

It's not really off topic because this is what I have been workin on

But here is the topic of my thread-- this swing I can't find much wrong with it and Greg says it's my best swing on record
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIes_-QSaO8&sns=em


Sent from my iPhone

Id say Snap can be gotten without right hand cocking . It might not be as late however. There being a range to snap.

There is audio tape of Homer discussing the relative advantages of Snap gotten via rubber wrists and/or right hand cocking vs his preferred preserved wedges version. Homer did have a strong theoretical preference for the latter , despite the fact some great golfers like Bobby Jones employed the former .

Let me see if I can dig it up ... and get back to with his thoughts.

The HB .

Hb what aligns the face for horizontal hinging if not cf when swinging? Are you implying horizontal is always manipulated or are you saying its a natural product of swinging but not from cf per say?

Homer of course believed horizontal was the product of true swinging. As revealed by his balsa wood iron head on a string experiment.Where no face manipulation was possible.

Conical plane. gravity is in play. IF HK swung it like a pendulum on a single plane which way would the toe point?

You do know I may get into big trouble for these truths. But. So be it. The fuse is lit, Maybe?

HB

Hb you are not shedding light on any new truths rather they are false. Cf aligns the clubface not the hands unless You are doing manipulated hands swinging. You have argued points about bending and rolling which are not required for a snap release. why the geometry is "mangled", the geometry is sound with a snap release, physics creates the geometry dont forget that. Cf aligning the clubface is why swinging works sorry you are wrong.

Q

Thanks whip, glad we have this all streightened out.

HB

I have to go with HB here. There is no physical reason that CF should impose any rotation around the longitudinal sweet spot axis.

My take on this is that the face is mostly squared by the rotation of the RFFW and the LAFW. The right (pitch) elbow can only be maintained so far into the down swing, and when RFFW rotates back on plane so does the club face.

Here's a Nesbit paper where the "gamma torque" that opens and closes the face is discussed - among other things http://www.motionanalysis.com/pdf/2005_nesbit.pdf

Wow seriously?

You guys are right homer was just all wrong wheres the head banging against the wall smiley?

I think u guys are forgetting what centrifugal force is and how it works it pulls objects in line and on plane with their center of gravity the clubs in line condition te natural way it hangs is what cf is seeking so the ball must be positioned accordingly but it is centrifugal force that is in fact aligning the clubface

If only it were that simple, then we would all have perfectly aligned club faces all the time.:BangHead:

"Principles are simple-their applications get complicated."

FTTMNKTA (for those that might not know this already) Bernt and HB are both highly decorated scientists , engineers and all round rocket surgeons. Seriously. I highly respect their opinion on all things physics, mechanical and geometry related. We are fortunate to have them on this board.

Might not always agree with them but ... we are indeed fortunate. And I don't believe in smiley faces ... never have never will. can't find the friggin button.

Now , that said. As a golfer , swinger I have had those blessed days when the motion, the free wheeling flail, the almost true swinging what ever you wanna call it seems to reproduce the impact geometry over and over and over again. And with what I now know to be Horizontal Hinging , compression plus , effortless power with consistency in direction and loft.

"Give up control to gain control" , as per Knudson.

And so, I can't in my golfers mind believe that CF, or the motion or perhaps something extra terrestrial doesn't align the face for Horizontal. It sure seems like it happens. And when Hitting it sure seems like Angled is the tendency . In fact Id say that the right elbow as it approaches pitch seems to beget Horizontal be you Hitting or Swinging, essentially.


HB why do you think Homer didn't plane his string experiment? I don't know that he did or didn't . Just wondering . Have you recreated it?

HB , Bernt are you sure you're just not both more on the manipulated side of things? No disrespect intended, Arnie would be in that camp. Homer himself had a preference for manipulated swinging . Hogan was a swinger with an Angled Hinge for most iron shots. Greg McHatton. etc etc. Lots of people overriding the tendency it would seem. Isn't there a tendency , Hinge Action wise?

Well OB , maybe not all that, well not some of it, a small part . BUT I did stay a a Holiday inn express once.

Show me the physics.

Anectdotal evidence. Look at your left foot. Is it swolen?
Your driver cog is well behind the face. I cf aligned the cog then you would come through impact about 30 deg. closed. And hit the ball into your left foot (exageration) '- see the point?

HB

Perhaps the cog is not as far back as manufacturers suggest? I dunno, such a thing would not shock me. They do keep trying to tell us the sweet spot is getting "bigger" for instance. It being a point , like a balancing point , of unmeasurable dimension.

Why would Homer get Horizontal for a cone shaped string path then? By what mechanism?

The thing about my anecdotal evidence is that it is common amongst good players. I know that means little given the track record of such things... straight back, straight through, ball flight laws etc. But .... there sure seems like a magical swing of the wand that repeats and repeats ....

that's why we play the ball back of low point it seeks cog at low point

Lay the shaft on a table, counter, bar, etc. with the head over the edge. the COG wil settle under th shaft and the face angle, deviation from verticle, will be apparent.

hb

Interesting .. so this would reveal Homers hook face too then?

About 40 Deg. On mine.

HB