Been There . . . Done That
 

We did this, Air. Over and over again.

From the Top . . .

Start Down Waggle.

Lower Body lead. Upper Body lag. Hands toward the Base Line.

Over and over again.

From Start Up . . .

"Sharp Turn, Slide, Swing!"

Please tell everybody we did this.

Please.

:salut:

I'm not so good at recognizing how I look when I'm swinging. I know we did a lot, but It's difficult to say what's what compared to what others do. So I'm not certain if this is exactly what we worked on: http://shawnhumphries.com/humpday/Hit-the-Draw.php. Is he leading with his lower body?
And I honestly can't say that I'm capable of hitting a draw at will.

You know what you are talking about. I don't always. That's one of the reasons I need another trip to Cuscowilla.

U were right - there's tons of stuff about TT (almost too much?) Even some hot air!

Air,

To hit a proper draw, you need to swing a little inside to out, and you need to create a little axis tilt. By keeping your shoulders back, you are creating that axis tilt, but IMHO, you are robbing yourself of some power. If you look closely at YODA's teaching, you will find he creates the necessary axis tilt by moving his hips forward during the stroke, in fact he sets up with his hips a little forward. One of his biggest keys is keeping his chest over the ball. Not moving the head and shoulders back, maintaining the TRIPOD.

YODA creates a very powerful swing with this method, and when you hear the compression you are sold.

Visuals of his action help me with this Air. I hope this helps. It's the Holy Grail I'm chasing...:golf:

Very nice. Thx.
Did you take a look at what this guy is doing?
http://shawnhumphries.com/humpday/Hit-the-Draw.php.

Air,

I'm sure he is a wonderful teacher, but even with a quick glance it just doesn't fit with Homer Kelley's teaching. He is WAY under plane on the down stroke. Remember 1-L-6?

1-L-6) The Clubshaft always points to the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other.

That is one of the basics we need to focus on. I'm sure Mr. Humphries is a wonderful teacher, but we must focus on one method, and Lynn would never want you in that position. The internet is a wonderful place to learn, but can also get us in trouble. No right, wrong, or best, but different teachers ideas don't always work together...

Kevin

Actually I didn't remember. But since you mention it, I remember Tom Tomasello saying it in one of his tapes, so now I can relate it to your remark. That mean's I'm a little wiser today than yesterday. Thx again. You are a BIG help. (Yoda has probably said it a dusin times as well - one too few it seems..)

I know YODA has said it, because everything I know I learned from him! I'm about 2% of the way to his knowledge. :)

I'm a pretty basic teacher AIR, I always start with the Imperatives and the Essentials. I believe in them, and I believe in YODA's interpretation of them. After that I try to tie what I teach to 1-L. If I go at it in this manner, it's pretty hard to hurt anybody. :)

After that, I believe in OPTIONS. You should see how differently YODA treats each students swing. He has a talent for seeing what their tendencies and preferences are. Different for all. Thats why you need to focus on what he is teaching YOU. After that, all your studies should go back to the Imperatives, Essentials, and 1-L.

When you feel lost, apply these principles to BASIC MOTION and get your compression back!

Just one mans opinion. :salut:

Kevin

Finding the other side
 

This is IMO a good way to discover the draw.

It is very close to how I think the shot when I don't trust my swing 100% and want to be 100% certain of getting a push draw with the driver.

This is also pretty close to what I did when I killed my slice several years ago. The other ting I did was to use a stronger grip. I keept on strengthen it until a slice was impossible. That got the good spiral going for me. It's amazing how easy it becomes to hige the club late in the down stroke when you feel like you don't have to do it in order to square up the club face. Eventually I developed a hook and had to go in the other direction to find new middle ground.

One thing that is likely to happen when you find the draw is that your release will become gradually more efficient. Because you don't have to force it anymore. And when you get a more efficient release you may have to reverse a couple of things slightly to avoid a snap hook, just like I dit. But I think it is necessary to visit the other side to establish a compensation free impact as the middle ground.

I guess you didn't have so much OTT - or you got rid of it as you got rid of the slice? This can also be a steering problem? Since I have been watching the Tom Tomasello tapes (and what Yoda has said), I think that the down and out message (and not so much forward) can be the way to go..?

Sensible and sound advice as usual. I'm copying all this advice from you and others into my lap top, so I can look, look, look at them when I need to (all the time). When you say "get my compression back" it has to be there in the first place. I'm not sure I'm very familiar with this compression - it comes sporadicly on a visit and comes and goes as it pleases and lives it's own life, it seems...

I am a firm believer in down and out. Especially down. Out and forward has a tendency to take care of itself but a lot of golfers cheat on the down part from time to time, myself included.

Steering is certainly a side of the problem. I think it's to a large extent a compensation that rides along. But it's hard to not do it when you "know" that not doing it will send the ball towards right field or something. Therefore, getting into a position where you can "wait" with releasing the club and hit the ball hard with your backhand without forcing the clubhead out is a mind blowing experience for the first time. Strong grip and (over)doing what's on the video can get you going.

I have already told Kevin how much help he is. You are in the same category. Thx.

Just some personal notes:
I'm already sick and tired of this cold winter now when it's at its darkest as well. I live in the south east part of the country near the border to Sweden, so I'm a long way from the parts of the country north of the polar circle. They don't see the sun at all - poor creatures. But it's bad enough here too, so 5 weeks from now my wife and I are going back to the place on the Canary Islands where we recently stayed to get back to a warm place and where I can do some meaningful training as well. Looking forward to it.

I just read that Michael Jordan was called His Airness. That reminds me that I must learn to make lower shots - especially in a headwind. Learning to draw helps I guess - and not just cut and block the shots, making them too high and short. Just a thought this Friday morning here in the cold.

BTW: Are knock down shots, punch shots and the technique for hitting low shots all the same thing?
http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...rajectory.html

Here I am well into Saturday.

My topic today is. If you were to mention the 3-5 (or more) most important points in hitting a driver long and straight, what would that be?

Why is pivot controlled hands a bad thing?

Transport Sans Manifest
 

Because the Pivot does not know where the Hands should go.

:salut:

The hands are virtually smarter than the pivot?

I can give you my version. But what if you give us your version first? I'm a firm believer in experience based learning.:happy3:

As most of us you probably don't hit every drive the same distance. What do you do different when you hit your max distance as opposed to your typical mis hit distance wise?

Master and Servant
 

They are more demanding.

:golfcart2:

ok.
That was actually difficult. I have some ideas, but it's very unsystematic.

Strong grip, Proper weightshift. Good release. Clubhead speed, Compression, Lag, Hit the sweetspot. Swing path slightly from the inside-out with horizontal hinging...
will hopefully get it done.....?

I thought that all the education the hands get, made them smarter, but they only get demanding? It doesn't sound like the education works like it should.:laughing9

LOL Air!

Sure, just like people in real life, once they get educated, they get cocky... :-)

Kevin

That's probably why I'm not so cocky (any more?) - I forget most of the things I have learned almost all the time. :confused1 :eyes:

I think as we get older and wiser, we learn how much we DON'T know! :) :salut:

Kevin

I know that I don't know either what I think I know, or what I should know.

I do have one strong thought - that litle white ball doesn't lie and is entirely unsusceptible to BS.

I know what I don't know - but I'm not sure that makes me wise?
BTW - how old are we when we we turn wise?
From wise guy to only wise..? :salut:

http://www.waynedefrancesco.com/thin...least-for-now/

I was actually aiming for something even more difficult. A response based on your own experience. What separates your best shots from the rest?

My own experience? Hmm

It's a little like the lottery. I can tell afterwards if the shot was good or not, but I never know what's coming.

My own best drives are when I have less OTT, steep out-to-in downstroke and instead get a more rounded backswing, extensor action without swaying and a loose enough left wrist to get a left arm role thru the ball.(Is that the same as horizontal hinging?). And swing thru to a full finsh.

Sometimes it works ok and sometimes not so ok.

The hands are virtually smarter than your brain. That's how it feels to me anyway.

They seem to know the flaws in my swing even though I'm not aware of them myself. And they seem to know the outcome of any stroke before I start moving the club back and what compensations are required to prevent disaster.

I often have a flaw in my putting stroke that makes me close the putter face between address and impact. The amazing part of it is that when this flaw is on, what I see a straight line towards the hole when I address the ball is actually a curved line that compensate for the difference in club face orientation. I don't make many putts when that appears, but it is still a fascinating compensation. And I can still two putt from a distance with it.

Lately I've began to use this as a warning sign. I double check the line. When I see a curved line as a straight line while standing over the ball I know that I am not set up correctly to the ball and sometimes I can eliminate the misalignment by starting all over.

My hands aren't in full command of the pivot. Far from it. But the hands seems to be quite capable of making (almost) the best out of the pivot at the time. If I have swing issues and the score is ruined already I can switch into "fix the swing mode" while I play. From time to time then, I can fix something that enables me to hit shots with lots of swing speed and lag pressure, good balance, a full finish and all that feel-good stuff. Bet even though everything feels perfect the shot starts out towards right field and slices some more! Or snap hooks. But distance is good, though :laughing1 This is pivot controlled hands to me. An extreme version of it.

But usually, when I'm in scoring mood, my hands will not allow me to do that. I am more likely to flip, quit, lose my balance, do whatever it takes to give the ball a fair chance of finding the fairway. Usually, when I start my round, I can score pretty well the first 5-6 holes with a stroke that is totally unimpressive and that feels disgusting. But eventually I get caught up by the flaws unless a good stroke clicks in.

What I do when I manage to rescue my score for the time being is very hands control oriented. I only think of impact, what the hands must do and the pressure they must feel through impact to get the job done.

There are a few occations where this hands controlled mental triggers a really good stroke pattern. And that would be my finest moments out on the course, and also the closest I've ever been to hands controlled pivot. When everything clicks in I *know* that I am going to hit the ball exactly as hard as I want to before I start taking the club back. And I *know* that I will get close to the target.

I think it's Ben Doyle who talks about the mind in the hands. Now I see what he is referring to..

I think ther's a lot of invisible stuff that goes into pivot controlled hands. Stuff that nevertheless makes a big difference to the score.

I'm sure you are right. Some know the feeling. Others read about it. I guess you belong in the first group and you may guess where I belong..

I am working on it. That's all.

I recently played with a guy that shot 5 under. We were even after 4 holes. He is a +3 HCP'er and I knew he was incredible good before we teed off. In that light, his ball striking looked surprisingly ordinary to my eye. I have beaten a few players with much more impressive ball striking than he pulled off. Or at least with ball striking that appeared to be better when they were hot.

But after 18 holes with pretty good ball striking most of the time, a few excellent approaches, a good putter, very consistent performance overall - and a a score of 67 I was very impressed to say the least. Whatever made the difference was invisible to my eye.

What's your hcp - if you want to reveal it?

Just under 6.

I've been around there for years.

Helt i tråd med hva jeg trodde.
(Du kommenterer dette med de lange og rette drivene også? #229 )

When you say more rounded back swing I take it you mean more horizontal rotation (as oposed to up'n down or vertical rotation). That is perhaps even more important with the driver than any other club.

What about your lower body? Any differentiators there?

You say it's a lottery. Can you judge the outcome of your shots by how the execution felt?

The reason I said loose left wrist (probably just as much the RW) is: when I hold too hard (as I often do), I don't get any left hand roll
at all, but block/steer it (with an open clubface) - no wonder it curves to the right.
Edited:
Maybe I should reconsider what's going on. I recall that I actually should tighten the grip of the left hand with the 3 last fingers - and be looser in the right hand to be able to roll the left arm in the thru swing.

How can I tell if it's a roll or a swivel? In case it's a swivel - is that a bad thing?

Yes - a more horizontal rotation in the backswing - I can feel that it's more rounded, because without a deliberate effort to do so, I tend to be way to steep/vertical to the top of the backstroke.

A Swivel tilts the Clubface. For a Swinger, the COG of the Club should be aligned with the Clubshaft during the Downswing so that the #3 PP is directing the Cog of the Clubhead and during Release, the Shaft will Rotate properly around the Sweetspot and not the Clubhead rotating around the Shaft (have you ever shanked a ball?). So, the Clubface is aligned to the Swingplane. Meaning, that the leading edge of the Clubhead is parallel to the Swingplane during the Downstroke. But for Impact, the Clubface needs to be Vertical. So, you'll Swivel from an On Plane Clubface to a Vertical Clubface for Impact.

Do you know how to Swivel during the Backstroke and Swivel the Clubface Vertical for Impact?

Turning and Rolling is the Clubface opening and Closing. Can you hold the Clubshaft in your Right Hand only and make the Clubface close as it approaches Impact without Swiveling (or Hooding) the Clubface. Can you make a very slow motion with only your right hand holding the club so that you can visually "See" watch the clubface close only? Can you do it without tilting the face neither up or down?

They are separate Motions. But Both can be completely automatic as a result of Alignments. Simple if you know the Alignments. Would you like to know what those Alignments are and how to get them?