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-   -   The Right Arm Swing (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1555)

EC 10-06-2005 05:53 AM
Thank you, Eddie, for this wonderful, personal, authoritative post.

In many ways on this site, we are documenting the evolution of Authorized Instruction in The Golfing Machine. Your contributions as an Instructor, Player and Educator on this site are considerable.

We are privileged to have you aboard.
_________________
Yoda


Actually it is all of us who are priveleged to have been able to learn from your vast knowledge. As I told you once...you OWN the information... conceptually, theoretically, intellectually, and physically. I'm sure that all here can appreciate how truly fortunate they are to have been able to learn from the BEST!

EC

EC 10-06-2005 06:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delaware Golf
Like I've been saying Yoda.....just play the TAPE!!!

Eddie....do you use the motion that you described above today? It sounds like you have watched the Australia video!!!


I would have to believe the highlighting of section 7-19 with the phrase "FORGET IT" from Tomasello was in reference to elbow injury, not right arm acceleration...

I'll respond more later....I have a meeting to attend to.

DG
DG,

I have watched the Austrailian tape, in fact I bought it from you!

When I worked with Tom, I had no TGM knowledge or experience. I took every word that he said as gospel. What I have come to learn over these many years is that Tom was actually finding his way through TGM and his thoughts were in a constant state of flux and evolution. I can tell you that in 1987, Tom had completely adopted a pivot controlled hands approach to his teaching. Page 223, sixth edition, last sentence 1st paragraph, he had me strike "Educated hands control the pivot" and replace it with "Pivot controls the hands". And on page 61, at the bottom of the page I have his note: "We are using pivot controlled hands!! Having the pivot "in charge" is easier." He was huge on learning the stick drill, and like I referenced earlier, I can still hear his mantra..."withdraw the right hip, fold the right arm, straighten the right arm, withdraw the left hip."
When he said straighten the right arm, it was more like STRAIGHTEN the right arm!!!!! RIGHT NOW!!! IMMEDIATELY!!!! ( All the while maintaining a bent right wrist all the way to the finish.) Incidentally, in 12-2-0, he changed the Shoulder turn component to "Rotating", the Hip Action to "Standard", the loading action to "Random Sweep, the Power Package Delivery Path to "Top Arc", and the Power Package Release to "Auto Snap".

The last time that I worked with Tom, probably around mid 1990 or so...he was into CIRCLE PATH DELIVERY for all shots. In looking back, I think that his association with Peter Croker was the explanation for this new approach. This is a couple of years before you worked with Tom, and perhaps by then he had develped a penchant for right arm swinging.

End of story...that's all I know.

EC

tongzilla 10-06-2005 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EC
DG,



When I worked with Tom, I had no TGM knowledge or experience. I took every word that he said as gospel. What I have come to learn over these many years is that Tom was actually finding his way through TGM and his thoughts were in a constant state of flux and evolution. I can tell you that in 1987, Tom had completely adopted a pivot controlled hands approach to his teaching. Page 223, sixth edition, last sentence 1st paragraph, he had me strike "Educated hands control the pivot" and replace it with "Pivot controls the hands". And on page 61, at the bottom of the page I have his note: "We are using pivot controlled hands!! Having the pivot "in charge" is easier." He was huge on learning the stick drill, and like I referenced earlier, I can still hear his mantra..."withdraw the right hip, fold the right arm, straighten the right arm, withdraw the left hip."
When he said straighten the right arm, it was more like STRAIGHTEN the right arm!!!!! RIGHT NOW!!! IMMEDIATELY!!!! ( All the while maintaining a bent right wrist all the way to the finish.) Incidentally, in 12-2-0, he changed the Shoulder turn component to "Rotating", the Hip Action to "Standard", the loading action to "Random Sweep, the Power Package Delivery Path to "Top Arc", and the Power Package Release to "Auto Snap".

The last time that I worked with Tom, probably around mid 1990 or so...he was into CIRCLE PATH DELIVERY for all shots. In looking back, I think that his association with Peter Croker was the explanation for this new approach. This is a couple of years before you worked with Tom, and perhaps by then he had develped a penchant for right arm swinging.

End of story...that's all I know.

EC
The lesson is this:

Follow, learn and understand the Basic Patterns of Hitting and Swinging in 12-1 and 12-2 before customising your own variations. That applies even if you think you know a lot about TGM. Only until you really know what you're doing and you really understand the jigsaw, then start customising. Even then, be very careful of what you're doing. Otherwise, you are much much better off following Homer's Pattern. Afterall, he's spent 28 years looking for it.

MizunoJoe 10-06-2005 09:16 AM
After rewatching the Australian tape again, it's clear that his Swinging procedure is nothing more than a standard 3-barrel inert left arm Swinging procedure with standard wrist action and horizontal hinging. The "long right arm" is just the normal result of an ordinary 3-barrel Swing which goes to a both arms straight position after separation. This Swing is not a right arm Swing. The right forearm has a downplane MOTION in the standard 3-barrel Swing, but it's right shoulder flywheel ACTION which produces it.

Delaware Golf 10-07-2005 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EC
DG,

I have watched the Austrailian tape, in fact I bought it from you!

When I worked with Tom, I had no TGM knowledge or experience. I took every word that he said as gospel. What I have come to learn over these many years is that Tom was actually finding his way through TGM and his thoughts were in a constant state of flux and evolution. I can tell you that in 1987, Tom had completely adopted a pivot controlled hands approach to his teaching. Page 223, sixth edition, last sentence 1st paragraph, he had me strike "Educated hands control the pivot" and replace it with "Pivot controls the hands". And on page 61, at the bottom of the page I have his note: "We are using pivot controlled hands!! Having the pivot "in charge" is easier." He was huge on learning the stick drill, and like I referenced earlier, I can still hear his mantra..."withdraw the right hip, fold the right arm, straighten the right arm, withdraw the left hip."
When he said straighten the right arm, it was more like STRAIGHTEN the right arm!!!!! RIGHT NOW!!! IMMEDIATELY!!!! ( All the while maintaining a bent right wrist all the way to the finish.) Incidentally, in 12-2-0, he changed the Shoulder turn component to "Rotating", the Hip Action to "Standard", the loading action to "Random Sweep, the Power Package Delivery Path to "Top Arc", and the Power Package Release to "Auto Snap".

The last time that I worked with Tom, probably around mid 1990 or so...he was into CIRCLE PATH DELIVERY for all shots. In looking back, I think that his association with Peter Croker was the explanation for this new approach. This is a couple of years before you worked with Tom, and perhaps by then he had develped a penchant for right arm swinging.

End of story...that's all I know.

EC
EC,

Today, I started to listen to the tapes I made during my three-day school with Tommy (this time 12 years ago)....what he taught me was....right forearm (right forearm Takeaway which moves the shoulders which in turn moves the hip (Tom taught me delayed hip-action), right hip, right forearm, left hip. Its the same move he used on the Australia tape...

Tommy definitely talked about starting to un-cock the right elbow at the start of the downswing (magic of the right forearm)....

Delaware Golf 10-08-2005 12:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MizunoJoe
After rewatching the Australian tape again, it's clear that his Swinging procedure is nothing more than a standard 3-barrel inert left arm Swinging procedure with standard wrist action and horizontal hinging. The "long right arm" is just the normal result of an ordinary 3-barrel Swing which goes to a both arms straight position after separation. This Swing is not a right arm Swing. The right forearm has a downplane MOTION in the standard 3-barrel Swing, but it's right shoulder flywheel ACTION which produces it.
Joe,

I'm sorry your wrong....the right forearm (the magic of the right forearm) is controlling the WHOLE motion...from start up to finish. The body responds to the action of the right forearm...I suggest going back and re-watch the whole video series...

DG

phillygolf 10-08-2005 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EC
Put your mind in your Right Forearm, keep your Head stationary, wind up and let it happen.
_________________
Yoda

I worked with TT more than anybody on this forum and the above is the crux of what he taught. Right arm swing? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!!! In Tom's swinging procedure, the left shoulder was the center of the swing...NOT THE RIGHT ELBOW!!!! His mantra was...withdraw the right hip, fold the right arm, straighten the right arm, withdraw the left hip. The right elbow NEVER was stressed as the center of the stroke...NEVER!!! In fact, the last paragraph on page 108, sixth edition, where referring to the right arm swing, Tom had me highlight it and bracket it with the words "FORGET IT".

Tom was a great ambassador of TGM and I will be eternally grateful for exposing me to such gems as the MOTIONLESS right wrist, the flying wedges, and the magic of the right forearm. He was light years ahead of most mainstream teaching then and NOW. However, that being said, I can tell you that his grasp of TGM paled in comparison to Lynn's.

With respect to Delaware, I worked with Tom before Dave's time with him, and perhaps he changed, but I doubt it strongly. I played a lot of golf with Tom and I know where he was mentally. (He was a great ball striker by the way!) Right arm participation is just as Yoda described in his analogy of the children throwing the ball... so beautifully simple. But, having the right elbow as the center of tyhe stroke makes little sense given the amount of radius power that is lost and the control that is sacrificed by the the diminished role of the flat left wrist. No offense meant, but I think that I provide an informed perspective.

EC
Eddie....you are the man! Thank you for your insight - it is invaluable.

And Yoda knew Tommy for over 20 years, Tommy playing the violin and doing his singing. If Yoda says it aint so, well, it just aint so!!!

That being said, DG...by all means, right arm swing...just take it easy making every thread a 'right arm swing' thread!!!

Patrick

Yoda 10-08-2005 01:08 AM
Playin' And Singin'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillygolf
And Yoda knew Tommy for over 20 years, Tommy playing the violin and doing his singing.
Patrick,

Tommy played the organ, not the violin. When he lived in Marietta, Georgia, he had one in his living room, and let me tell ya...

The man did love to sing!

phillygolf 10-08-2005 01:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda
Patrick,

Tommy played the organ, not the violin. When he lived in Marietta, Georgia, he had one in his living room, and let me tell ya...

The man did love to sing!
Thats it!!! My bad. I knew he was a singer!!! Good stuff!!

6bmike 10-08-2005 09:06 AM
EC

Thanks for the background. I love the history of TGM.


mike


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