Friday 26.11.10 - 10.12.10
 

P. 157 - 211.

I'm outta here

Read more:
http://richie3jack.proboards.com/ind...=desc&p age=3
http://richie3jack.proboards.com/ind...#ixzz169deb6Sy

It's warm and nice here. 10 min's walk and the driving range and chipping & putting greens are at my disposal.

I'm envious. Now if you only had more time. :)

Air, I'm guessing you're retired?
 

Do you folks have a Thanksgiving Holiday? Did you have a good holiday? If you are retired, what was your profession, if you don't mind me asking.

Have you ever played disc golf? It seems big in your 'hood. If I had a disc course near me, I'd bring some wedges and balls, unless there are stringent penalties against that type of thing. Do you do that? :laughing9

ICT

14 days in all. not too bad + 8 month old granddaughter.

Done my short game and driving range practise for today. Internet costs $1 for 5 min. Can't write so much.

Air,

I watched your videos. Most of what you do look pretty good, although you should perhaps try to be more aggressive through the ball.

The OTT is evident on the video. To me it looks like the cause of it is in your transition. You start to turn right away. You need to delay the forward turn. You need to start with a forward hip slide and at the same time drop the back shoulder and hands vertically-ish towards the ground. There will be some turn during transition still, but much less than you are doing now.

If focusing on your hips and shoulders doesn't work for you you can try to focus on the hand path. You need to get the hands down on a much steeper path initially than you're currently doing.

Work In Progress
 

True, Air, but . . .

S-O-O much better than pre-Cuscowilla!

And, guys, check his wonderful Finish. Great body position, balance and Clubshaft alignments! No comparison to where he was before our lessons.

See you in March, Air. You'll be ready, and . . .

I'll be waiting!

:golfcart2:

Looking good Air!

I just hope you don't get killed by a golf ball ricocheting off your house before next March!!! :)

Kevin

What about the windows?
 

If it were me, I'd slip on the way down, pop my artificial hip out (here, chew on this rawhide fella;it'll take the sting out of what happens next), and line drive 3 planes of glass!
:laughing9

ICT

Encouraging to hear. Thx
Here it is 80 degrees warmer than at home (75, -5). Feels better on the range.

Thx Bernt. I working on it here. It helps a little with more than the one attempt in the cold ...

Thanksgiving has no tradition here. I was a teacher as well.. I don't know what disc golf is, but I threw some discus and javelin in my time.

I don't think a plastic ball will kill anyone.

No wonder you did well with the club throwing, Air!

I participated a general training course as a teenager. I think it added up to 4 weeks full time so it was quite a lot to take in. One of our teachers had been a national team coach in discus and shot put. He taught us about something he called "central motion". When I started to play golf in 1989 and the pro told us about the golf stroke, the central motion came back to my mind. It was basically the same.

I think a lot of the fundamentals for discus and javelin is very relevant to getting a feel for what the pivot should do in the golf stroke. The rotation, the footwork, the sequencing of feet, hips, shoulders then arms. The "keeping the lag pressure on" until the ball / javel, discus or whatever has been launched.

One perhaps important difference is that the swing center is lower in your spine when you play golf, since the ball is on the ground.

Unfortunately I hadn't the world's best technique in the throwing events either - I used too much arm power and didn't get the most out of the rest of the body. I also started with golf in 1989, but unfortunately I already was 41 years old, but it's (almost) never too late...

Today I played 18 holes on a par 73 6600 y course. A bit rusty - not my best, but some of the drives were ok and I tried out the new putting style without too many problems. Have to stop..

On my way home
 

to the dark and cold again...

Back home
 

I'll have to try to get back to normal again - what ever that means...

To find the right "method"
 

All though I have been here over 4 months, I have to confess that I still don't understand TGM and how to use it. I have read that TGM isn't a method, but since I have had lessons from Yoda, I of course listen to his advice and use this information as a "method" - that suits me (in order to get a better swing and get rid of my many mistakes).

I think I have read that using an AI is the best way to learn what TGM has to offer. The AI uses TGM in a way that the student may have difficulties to do on his own. That's ok by me. I'm more interested in what works for me than to know how this fits in the whole TGM picture. And since I am so lucky to get this information from Yoda himself - first in October and once more in March - I think and hope that that's enough for me to concentrate on the information from this instruction - and use it as the "method" I should deal with - and more or less "forget" what TGM is all about as a whole.

But if anyone wants to convince me that I should do this in a different way, I'm willing to listen to sound advice on how to use TGM - in addition to Yoda's "method" in my case. Can anyone understand my problems with TGM and how to deal with it?

Air,

If you want to learn how you can most effectively swing your golf club, and so improve your game, then listen to Yoda only - and follow his swing advice to the exclusion of all others.

If you find the study of Homer's work to be of interest then, by all means, use the power of the forum and let OB, Daryl, Bernt, Bucket, Mike O, et al be the guys to ease your understanding.

But firstly you have to recognise the difference between swing theory and swing practise as it applies to you.

Keep the two separate from each other and you will have no further difficulty.

I wish you well in your (Yoda driven) swing practise and hope you continue to study the book via judicious use of the forum and the help of the many friends you have made so far.

Thx. Sure I'll certainly keep my eyes open to what's going on here - in so far I understand and can relate to it. But my own swing is more "do this" (/stop doing that) than getting the whole theoretical message that TGM stands for. I wish I could have a better understanding of the book, but I'm more than happy to get the advice and instruction I need at my level and age...

Stay the Course
 

Forget the book, Air.

For now, I am your book.

But, it's not my 'method'. It's your Stroke Pattern.

Among the trillions of Patterns available, you do what you do.

My goal . . .

And yours . . .

Should be to bring your Basic Pattern into compliance with the Laws of Force and Motion that govern all movement and the Geometry of the Golf Stroke.

When we get your motion aligned . . .

And we already have begun (big time) . . .

You will leave them crying for their Norwegian momies come spring.

I've seen it happen so many times.

You will be no exception.

:salut:

Thx. This is just what I wanted to hear and what's meaningful and rewarding for me. I'm glad for what's happened so far and I'm looking forward for even more pluss a little more stability and confidence in what I am doing and performing.

This page should be stickied for everybody. Great stuff by all, starting with AIR's revelation.

IMHO, TGM as a whole is for those who want to teach. A gazillion patterns and options available.

YODA is teaching AIR the method that works for AIR, and AIR only.

Studying the book as a whole would only add confusion to your journey right now. You don't need to know all the options.

Study the parts of the book YODA recommends as important to AIR's method. Focus on the structure HOMER and YODA are giving you, it will be the same structure for the rest of your journey. It will never change.

You are indeed lucky you were able to make this tutoring possible AIR, especially as far as you have to travel. Man, with what you have discovered now, you are really on your way, and it's really fun to be a witness...

Kevin

As usual I like what you are saying. You are a very nice person.


9-05-2008, 09:24 AM

drewitgolf
LBG Pro Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,138
A Method to the Madness
Many instructors teach a method "the way", which can have success with a student if the student fits their model. The problem with methods is that they are often incomplete and quite often based on subjective interpretations.

TGM informs and explains a flexible "feel" system based on geometry (alignments) and Physics (power) that can be adjust to the individual's needs. A complete flexible system that incorporates ALL successful methods.
__________________
01-30-2009, 05:00 PM
drewitgolf
Feed What You Need.
Swingers set up a "swing-back" motion, Hitters generally a "carry-back" motion all on Plane. Per 2-F, every Component of the Stroke must be adjusted to comply with the Plane. The question then becomes: which Plane?

Depending upon the Plane (7-6,10-6) you choose and any Plane Shifts or Variations (10-6) will require you to vary the Three Dimensional Back, Up and In.

While applying Extensor Action at Start Up the amount of Right Forearm Fanning and Right Forearm Pick-Up (as controlled by The Magic of the Right Forearm, per 7-3) as well as the Pivot have to all be balanced out to keep your motion on Plane all while under the direction of Educated Hands.

An inward turn produces an outward force. This is similar to what GSED Gregg McHatton preaches and what could be interpreted as Pivot control Hands. The sharper the inward turn the more the club moves away from you and not under Plane. The issue stills lie in the execution. Can the club be moved on the Plane that you have selected consciously or subconsciously.
__________________


Let the Motion Make the Shot.

The three all-encompassing Primary Concepts on which ALL details can be easily attached as they surface-The Hinge Action (2-G) of an Angular Motion (2-K) operating on an Inclined Plane (2-F)

02-01-2009, 10:08 PM #32
Yoda:
Undirected, the Hands go where the Right Shoulder goes.

In Start Up, that means "inside" the Line. But, the Hands have a choice . . .

And that choice, as the Right Shoulder rotates back -- toward the Plane -- is to point the Sweetspot at the Straight Plane Line.

From the Top, if the Right Shoulder rotates off the Plane -- "outside" the Line instead of toward the Ball -- then the Hands have no choice . . .

They must go along. Geometry -- however On Plane intentioned -- is no match for Off Plane Physics.



Fortunately, Educated Hands understand this phenomenon and control it.

Integrate the Start Down Waggle -- 3-F-5 per 8-7 and 12-3-0 / 7-- into your Pre-Shot Routine.
..
02-01-2009, 11:36 PM #36
bambam
My last 2 cents...
This is one of those pieces of the swing that I doubt I ever would have ever gotten right on my own. The folding right arm started much earlier and felt much more 'up' than I ever imagined, even after reading dozens of posts on the right forarm pickup (I had a 'duh' moment at Cuscowilla with this one). There is a lot of seemingly conflicting pieces of advice around this topic and it's easy to lose site of just tracing the plane line - eg. use less pivot and let the hands lead vs. use more to be sure and clear the right hip, don't lift the arms vs. lift the club from the start, etc... For me extensor action with an earlier bending, 'lifting' right arm was the trick that helped my pivot start taking orders from my hands on the way back. For the most part, the right arm is just folding up and down, and the pivot responds as needed to my intent to trace the plane line. Again for me that meant a little more active right arm and pivot with less active hands, but I imagine it could be totally different for others.
..
Daryl
05-05-2009, 12:44 PM #60

I understand what you’re saying. Now, don’t ever (unless it’s a trick shot) move your right elbow in a sawing motion again unless its during release. You are correct in believing that your right elbow bend needs to be about 90 degrees to match a swing plane on the elbow plane. Please see my previous post in this thread.

The Elbow is guided by the right shoulder and left arm. Where is it guided to (pointing behind you or downward)?..is the result of Wrist Action at Start-up,,Swivel or Single Action.

The Right Elbow is never in control of anything and especially the left arm. The left arm checkreins the right forearm from unbending (and thereby moving the hands away from the left shoulder) and the Right Shoulder controls the raising of the left arm……….

Extensor action take-away is a “bent over dumbbell shoulder fly” with a bent right arm. Ask your fitness instructor to show you how it’s done. Do one. Make a fist in your right hand. Grab the fist with your left hand and do a Dumbell bent over shoulder fly. See what happens to the Left Arm,, it raises magically.

The reason that your #3 pressure point is directly oppossed to the primary lever is because your Single Action Wrist Action caused it to be there when the Single Action Wrist Action is combined with Extensor Action during the Take-away and Backswing.

Extensor Action combined with my start-up swivel will move my right elbow to a position below the Hands when the shoulder raises the left arm.

Extensor Action: Do not Fan the elbow like a Chicken Wing by holding the right hand steady and the elbow flops around. Its kind of like holding the elbow stationary and fanning the right hand, except that the elbow moves up and down and away from your body (if you have the flexibility)
..
okie 05-06-2009, 11:24 AM #76
It bends because you want to straighten it!
Extensor Action unlocked a better understanding of the magic of the right forearm. Earlier I got carried away with the right forearm karate chopping deal. I misunderstood Tomasello's explanation. It dawned on me (again kinda like the dowels and dragging a wet mop)when I actually worked on the extensor action drills it suddenly hit me that without extensor action there can be no precision bending of the right elbow (among other things) A below plane (with #3 acc. angle) pull of the left arm by the right, an on plane right forearm with a precision bend of the right elbow to accomplish this alignment, then trying to straighten the right arm against the checkrein of the left arm will determine the precise amount of right arm bend. It is not good enough to simply bend the right elbow willy-nilly! When I felt the right elbow bending in response to my concerted effort to straighten it...I began to understand the depth of Homer's contribution to golf! I have a fighting chance to reproduce that unmistakable feel...EVERYTIME!
..

Alignments
 

From the top of my head - what is alignments all about?

It's different from positions, I have been told. In what way? I can appreciate that you put (align) your body in a certain way as a pre-motion starting point - as the set-up. The arms and wedges in a certain way and let the motion begin with the right forearm in a leading role - and a hand controlled pivot to the top and then down again (a lot of downstroke waggles - avoiding the the dreaded OTT on my part) keeping the wedges and BRW intact, making sure that the hands are well in front of the ball (which you are swinging thru, not hitting at) with the FLW at impact and rolling of the left forearm (or is this a horizontal hinging?) in the thru swing/followthru (both arms straight - for the first time) into a full finish..

Sounds like a lot a positions for me - but maybe I just have tried to describe the motion the that alignments have set up for - for the motions make the shots. But here I'm not actually making a shot - I'm describing a make believe shot trying to use some alignment thoughts that I playing around with.

Any helpful comments?

Good question Air,

When I think of alignment I think of short film sequences rather than still pictures, and I also think of pressure point pressure and internal body tension / pressure. But I haven't seen it defined in this regard and it would be interesting to hear what Yoda says about this.

Indeed.
It also probably has to do with the geometry and mechanics in motion (motion picture) converted to feel - if it's done correctly..to take another shot at it.

Daryl wrote in # 66 in this thread:

A golfer can swing a Club with an Angular Force, so that the Ball responds as if a Linear Force has been applied. The secret to achieving this is “Hinging”. The result is a perfectly straight Ball Flight Path from a square stance, with a square plane line, and a parallel target line.

"the Hinge Action (2-G) of an Angular Motion (2-K) operating on an Inclined Plane (2-F)"

I guess this also has to do with the alignment question? Or not?

Any suggestions on how best to fill the time from now to March since I should "forget the book"?
I guess that means the book as a whole - certain pages should still be a source of learning? Which? And other than that - watch videos, Taly etc..and the swing training itself - with the alignments of the arms/wedges as an important point.(?)

Get an impact bag.

Hit the gym.

Go skiing.

Get in shape and spoil yourself with a good apetite and a few good meals.

Get a perspective on the mental game. Read Zehn Golf
Learn about where your head need to be while on the course to play extraordinary golf

Get some spiritual inspiration. Read Golf in the Kingdom

And some very different spiritual inspiration from 4 iron in the soul

Save a few of those toilet paper roll cores. And use them for practice putting indoor. You can just squeeze a golf ball in there. Find a floor surface with good and predictable roll - preferably with short, smooth carpet. Let the core rest against the back wall and work on your putting stroke until you can hole a bunch in a row between 6 and 10 feet. You will be a killer on the greens next year if you put your heart into this.

I always listen to your insightful suggestions. But no skiing for me. I curse the snow other than it's where a lot of the winter sports on TV take place.

He-he,

But those books are worth a million, Air. And I don't think they will impose swing thoughts that conflicts with what Yoda teaches you.

They don't cost a million as well? I recently got Paul Runyan: The short way to lower scoring. 30 dollars for the book and even more for the shipping. But it looks like a good book.

De er herved bestilt i Bokklubbben. Bare 100 lappen pr stk fritt tilsendt er ikke så ille..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVCW-...ayer_embedded#

Tom Tomasello
 

I have been watching his videos - and in one of his first he says that the first thing in the downswing is down : the right elbow must connect with the right side before anything else and that will push the right hip left (seen from the player's view) and bring the right shoulder down. Is this the way to do it - and practice on? How does this relate to the downswing waggle?

deflected
 

TT talks about angled hinging producing a "deflected" shot/stroke. What does he mean by that?

Air,

There has been a lot of Tomasello discussions earlier on LBG. The search engine is your friend.

ok ......

To hit a draw.
 

I have hardly hit a draw in my life - a lot of pulls and even more slices. There are some ways to hit draws (if you don't come OTT). Set up with a closed stance and aim at the target. I saw another way recently. Set up as to a normal straight shot, but as the downswing starts, keep both right shoulder and right hip back as you swing your arms thru. Is this something anybody has tried or will recommend?