BTW. The master's voice - I was referring to you as the master in this instance, as I was thinking of the old trademark His master's voice.

http://inventors.about.com/od/gstart...amophone_2.htm

So I'm sorry I mislead/confused you with my remark. I can see who you were thinking about when there was talk about the master. Please feel free to elaborate - (a drawing?). I don't understand your brief describtion. My traditional hacking was a result of OTT out-to-in downswing path. Does that have any bearing on what you are talking about?

Sunday 21.11.10
 

P. 138-141


10-1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 9 of the TGM translations will go over Chapter 10 in the book despite the List #2 directing the reader towards Chapter 3.

Whereas Chapter 7 gives a general overview of each of the 24 Basic Components of the golf swing, Chapter 10 goes more into detail and discusses each variation of each Component. There 3-15 variations of each Component.



10-1 (Basic Grips)


General overview of the Basic Grips can be found HERE.

OVERLAPPING

Furyk uses a double overlap which Homer Kelley discusses to a degree here. 'Any number of the last fingers of the Right Hand may overlap any number ofthe first fingers of the Left Hand.' Homer states that increasing the amount of overlap diminishes the leverage of the Right Hand.

BASEBALL - Homer notes that with the baseball grip, if you increase the distance between the hands (split grip), it also increases the support from the right hand. However, if decreases the clubhead acceleration, which is hugely important because....Force = Mass * Acceleration.


REVERSE OVERLAP - The opposite of the overlap grip. In fact, increasing the overlap diminishes the leverage of the LEFT hand.


INTERLOCKING - Nothing new here, left index and right pinky interlock with each other.


CROSS HAND - Yes, Homer discusses the Cross Hand grip in TGM. Think it's an impossible component to play highly competitive golf? Tell that to Josh Broadaway.

Homer states the hand positions are reversed and using this grip means that the Right Arm Action cannot overpower the Flat Left Wrist at impact. Basically if you use Cross Hand grip, then you can either use an Overlap, Baseball, Reverse Overlap, Interlocking with the Cross Handed, but no other exceptions.


Read more: http://richie3jack.proboards.com/ind...x zz15rpn8vFQ

10-2 (Grip Types)


Grip types are about the 'direction' of the hands, and if the grip is 'strong' or 'weak' along with the position of the wrists, the left thumb and the #3 Pressure Point.

WEAK SINGLE ACTION V/V/T - Both wrists are vertical to the ground (as noted by the V/V) and the left thumb and the #3 PP are on top of the shaft (noted by the /T) as much as they can be on top of the shaft without losing the position of the vertical right wrist. Thus the notation of V (Vertical Left Wrist)/V (Vertical Right Wrist)/T (#3 PP and thumb on top of the shaft)

STRONG SINGLE ACTION V/V/A - Both wrists are vertical, but the left thumb and the #3 PP are on the 'aft' side of the shaft (aka the side of the shaft that is away from the target). Here Jeff Evans demonstrates the Strong Single Action grip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6Jqq...layer_embedded

WEAK DOUBLE ACTION V/R/T - Vertical Left Wrist, Right Wrist is rolled to the to the top of the Clubshaft so that the Right Wrist Bend will be on the same line as the Left Wrist Cocking Motion. So, if you were to grip the club and cock the left wrist upward, the right hand has to be rolled over to the top of the shaft so that the 'V' in the right hand is in the same line as where the left wrist would cock upward. It's probably arguable, but I believe Hogan had a Weak Double Action Grip.



STRONG DOUBLE ACTION T/V/A - Left Wrist is turned to the top of the shaft and the right wrist is vertical. Left Thumb and #3 PP are on the aft side of the clubshaft. This makes the left wristcocking motion so it is inline with the right wrist bent. This is the type of grip that 'shows 3 knuckles' in the left hand.

Homer states this grip is 'very compatible with Cut Shot procedures.' Remember, a cut shot is ANY shot that uses vertical hinging. Even if it is a full swing with a driver that has a draw trajectory (albeit difficult to do precisely with vertical hinging).


WEAK DOUBLE ACTION UNDERHAND V/T/U - Vertical left wrist, Right wrist is turned so it is 'strong.' So strong that the #3 PP is UNDER the clubshaft. Bit of a unique grip to see from a golfer.

STRONG SINGLE ACTION UNDERHAND T/T/U - Both wrists are turned, very strong grip with the #3 PP under the clubshaft.



Read more: http://richie3jack.proboards.com/ind...x zz15uUiugNU

Flipping
Watching one of Yoda's vidoes om The Flying Wedges - he showed how it works with badmitton rackets. If we swing down the shoulder plane line on a straight line with the right arm flying wedge - the right forearm and index finger pointing at this imaginary line - all is well, but since 98% of all golfers according to Yoda, they come in too high with the right arm and do not come in the right path and this is why hackers flip the club - because that's the only way they can hit the ball with the incorrect downstroke path. It sounds like my old OTT out-to in downstroke where flipping was the rule and not the exception.

I don't think that HK was referring to OTT with his "Hacking comment".

Maybe not - but I would think it is of importance - how we hit at the ball instead of swinging thru it. The club head orbit will certainly be affected. Yoda warns against hacking in a couple of his videos. But I don't think he says how. We can't stop looking at the ball? And hacking at the ball also gets the clubface thru the ball - it doesn't stop where the ball was. It must have to do with the motion , I guess. The focus on making a complete swing fra start-up to finish and let the motion deal with the ball - or something like that...? (Easy to say, not always quite so easy to do..)

Things to work on? (Mistakes / bad habits)
 

- Swaying / bobbing of the head.
- Flipping
- Hacking
- OTT
- Steering
- Swinging too fast and jerky
- Wrong alignments of The Flying Wedges
- Throwing the lag away (not sustaining or getting lag in the first place).
- Topping
- Quitting
- Chunking
- Shanking
- Slicing
- Not getting out of the bunker.
- Blading the ball too far out of the bunker
- Hitting too high in a strong head wind.
- Bad course management.

Any other problems? Comments? Solutions?

..

Quitting (3-F-7-B) is the enabling action of Steering, the First Snare (3-F-7-A). It diverts the Clubhead from its true, Down Plane Orbit -- across the Impact Plane Line and toward the parallel Low Point Plane Line -- and Steers it down the Target Line instead. The result -- geometric disaster with its real-world consequences -- belies its innocent origin, i.e., the logical and well-meaning advice to "swing the clubhead toward the Target".

The cure is to swing the Club all the way Down Plane through Impact to Low Point (3-F-7-E). And this requires taking the Clubhead and the Hands into Impact (7-3). It is axiomatic that you cannot do this if the Hands Quit. Even after Low Point, the Thrust continues Down Plane as the Bent Right Arm straightens toward the Plane Line --not toward the Target! -- and into the Full Extension of Both Arms in the Follow-Through (1-L-#15).

Hi Air

thanks for the link to the piece on a SSA grip (i'm still waiting for the book & have been looking for this info)

anyone ?....is there are preferred place to set the grip ? club horizontal to ground with butt off left leg & head of club more towards middle of body (ie leaning as in impact) ? TIA

ref your list fwiw my advice would be not to give the bad stuff any consideration at all, focusing on developing the correct golfing actions will cure the lot.

Mentally you probably are right not to focus so much on the flaws, but most of us have areas that need some extra work. I'm not sure that the basic motion work out is the best way to deal with your bunker play if that needs extra consideration and practice for example.

Monday 22.11.10
 

P. 142 - 144


http://richie3jack.proboards.com/ind...lay&thread=277

More about hacking.
I'm not sure if hacking at the ball is a natural tendency that most players begin with and that has to be overwun (how?) - even if the swing is ok in itself , or if it's a faulty swing that produces the hacking. I'm also not sure if hacking alone can occur by itself or if it's mostly caused by and combined with flipping and other major faults, like sterring and / or an out-to-in downstroke path and throw aways and dismantling of the Flying Wedges etc.

..

Today I did exactly the same as described in post 102.

..

What does "hacking" mean?

'Hacking' means hitting at the Ball (rather than swinging through the Ball). It is characterized by swinging from the Wrists, Over-Acceleration and Quitting. In other words, Clubhead Throwaway with its Bent Left Wrist and Flat Right Wrist Syndrome.

The Action is commonplace and may be seen daily on Golf Courses and Practice Tees throughout the world.

It produces only Hackers.

It certainly doesn't hurt to reflect on the errors in the stroke and understande cause and action. If you know what went wrong it is easier to address it. But main focus should be on doers and not on avoiders. Even when you work on your problem areas.

I hear you, my man.

Tuesday 23.11.10
 

P. 145-149

http://richie3jack.proboards.com/ind...lay&thread=277

Daryl wrote:

Air, I think you should understand something. Hinging is the easy part. Not disturbing the Sweetspot Orbit is the Hard Thing. That's what TGM will teach you. And you'll learn that you need a "Flat Left Wrist" to learn how not to disturb the Orbit. If you can get a Flat Left Wrist through Impact, everything else will almost fall in place.

The Clubhead, with a Driver, and the Ball Played back 1 inch behind Low-Point, will travel downwards 1/50th of an inch and outward even less before ball separation. That's how critical it is. 1/50th of an inch. That's the difference between full compression or not. Even with a Putt. You need Hinge Action even with a Putt to gain compression.
It's technique that allows the perfect Orbit of the Sweetspot.
..

How does TGM teach you not to disturb the Sweetspot Orbit (besides the FLW)? Doesn't TGM recognize different types of swings - giving different results? Why is this the hard part if TGM teaches this? To hit the sweetspot you will have to have a "perfect" impact following a "perfect" downswing/followthru? How does this relate to what Ben Hogan said about only having 3 perfect shots in a golf round?

..

It's time to repeat this:
http://www.iseekgolf.com/golfinstruc...ith-lynn-blake

I don't know what he meant by three perfect shots.

Down is important. The Left Wrist should be uncocking through Impact.

4 years ago, I learned Max Compression. Then I lost it but now I have it back. What a difference. It's not the same game.

I lost it because I was moving my head two inches. When I kept my head still I was able to create perfect circles again, or something.

I can't tell you enough how much fun it is to play golf that way. Anything else is just so much work I don't want to play.

I guess you are talking about something I have very little experience with - maybe 5-6 shots in my whole "carriere". But that was combined with OTT flipping, but they never the less turned out extremely well. But of course I had no control of these shots, so it was just pure luck. To have the necessary control (with the right technique/motions) must be fun.
Is max compression also depending on this sweetspot orbit you have mentioned and sustained lag pressure?

Hi Daryl

I appreciate it might be an impossible ask & too particular to any one individual but - how would you describe a Max Compression stroke, so a fella might recognise one if he happened to bump into it :-)

I can post a video so you can hear it. All I can say is that the Ball comes off like a rocket with hardly any effort.

Yoda can probably give the best idea on how many golfers he has heard have it and How many tour players have it. I don't know? Maybe 1 of 100 golfers, 1 of 5 or 1 of 10 tour players? He may be the only guy that knows.

if the link below works (click on the picture) listen when he takes a full swing. Watch this guy set his right forearm flying wedge before address. go to 1:40 and start watching

thank you Daryl, the link works, very interesting to see how on plane the right forearm (i'm guessing from how he tucks the elbow in) is at start up, i also notice his flat right wrist & bent left.

It is a pretty distinctive swing motion, I will be seeing if i can replicate it & where it leads, does your swing look like his ?

appreciate it :-)

You probably mean flat left wrist (FLW) and bent right wrist (BRW).

at impact yes & at start up from his chips, but not at start up from his full swing, i'm thinking he is getting a better feel for lag that way

Ok. That must be adjusted address - and not impact fix. Does that also mean that he is a swinger - or can hitters also begin from adjusted address - allthough impact fix is most common for a hitter (I think)?

there are a number of differences between swinging & hitting & i'm only somewhat clear on the ones that influence the downswing, but address position isn't a defining characteristic as far as i'm aware, though you could well be right that hitters more often tend to start from impact fix

You've got it Tim. Very few absolutes, there are a few, or three to be exact, and three more that you should strive towards, everything else is pretty much wide open...

The lists in chapter 11 help you understand what goes together well, and what shouldn't be combined, although it's not exactly black and white, and chapter 13 gives you a pretty wide overview while letting you know the importance of separating dragging and driving, at least the way I read it...

Kevin

thanks, i will check that out, my TGM book should be here any day now. Actually i've been wondering whether i should work on hitting or swinging & what might work best longer term, but i think it is something that can wait awhile whilst i get a few of the concepts understood & actions under control. I feel like a kid in a sweet shop, running around trying a bit of this and that - it's all good :) & i have the feeling of wanting to fast forward it all to a spot where i have a decent handle on it, but i know it will take some time & i'm lucky in that i can hit a few balls everyday & at least make some progress.

Tim,

Again, you've nailed it. In the day Jerry and I spent watching Yoda teach, not once did he mention hitting or swinging. He looked at each student, and worked on the components he felt needed work.

Personally, learning hitting has been HUGE for my short game and is always being developed using basic motion. Your basic motion stroke may one day open your eyes as to your preference, but definitely does not need to be jumped on right away...

YODA, please don't let me steer Tim wrong... would you agree?

Kevin

YODA, please don't let me steer Tim wrong... would you agree?

Kevin[/quote]

Steering is when your hands are placed around the student's neck in order to aid in direction.

Steering is when your hands are placed around the student's neck in order to aid in direction.[/quote]

You almost make steering sound like a good thing.

another great post
 

That looks like one of the Aussie from Cuscowilla in the dark hat the golfguru from iseekgolf. Another great post

Daryl, would you say a characteristic of this swing is big-time use of the pivot action ?

Wednesday 24.11.10
 

P. 149 -153
http://richie3jack.proboards.com/ind...lay&thread=278

It looks like he keeps Zone 1,2 and 3 identities separate. The Pivot supplies the primary Force. The Arms create speed from it and the Hands Direct it.

So, yes. Big-time use of the Pivot.

10-2-D Grip, Angled Hinge. I think that Paul Smith mentioned somewhere that Ramsey was trained by Greg McHatton. Maybe Paul will tell us more about his swing.

thanks Daryl, i don't have the book yet so i've made a note of your reference. that would be great to hear more about the swing, if Paul is willing ?

I met maxine compression today, she just gave me a peck on the cheek & then was gone but promised more if i'm faithful to her (she knows i can be a feckless tosser who will pick up with most any swing thought going). she is very beautiful, is it wrong to want to make babies with a golf swing ? i think not.

seriously i tried this out & loved it, big statement after half an hour but i think it might be the one for me. i like the way the swing is completely spent at the end & just coasts to a dead stop, presumably because all the energy is in the ball ? it's like, done well, the swing would say 'i can just about be bothered to crush this thing, but if i nod off doing it, will you wake me up please' :-)

i hit a couple drivers (albeit in the net so i don't know for sure how good they were) that went TWAP (or similar noise that a compressed ball might make) & played around with some wedges & 8i for half an hour. Great stuff thanks for your help.

thanks for your encouragement, thoughts & advice Kev - really appreciate it :)

Power Angle Pro & Pure swing
 

Are these devices still around? Is anybody here using any of them?

Tom Tomasello
 

When viewing his videos in the gallery - is there anything to be warned about in his instruction? Is he using too much axis tilt for example?

Thursday 25.11.10
 

P. 154 - 156

http://richie3jack.proboards.com/ind...lay&thread=280

I have just received Paul Runyan's : The short way to lower scoring.

I quess I'll read the whole book - but it was the putting technique I'm most interested to study.

Still OTT I'm afraid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs8CyvHblMM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrI3S8xHluA

Air,

It may help you to get a better feel for things if you were to move your hitting mat a couple of feet over to your left, as you face the house, and then continue to hit the ball at the same place on the wall as you are doing in these videos.

Right now you are steering (in an attempt to miss your windows?) - I think.

Just a thought. Worth what you paid for it. :)

Thx. I don't think I have hit the window at all (maybe once?). Plastic ball. No danger. But sure, steering is not an unknown factor. Back to old sins, I guess.

It's hard to see without slow motion, but it seems that the first move down from the top your right shoulder goes out. Have you axis tilt moving the hip first? Just my 2 cents.

That's what I saw as well - right shoulder out: OTT. Disappointing to see - not much different than before - except the finish (more for show?) It didn't feel as bad as it looked..

I would suggest perfoming many acquired motion:

adjusted address;
preturn hip;
backstroke with right forearm parallel to the floor, limited wristcock;
first move down: hip slide;
then #4;

see if there is difference on the right shoulder, it should drop down slightly instead of going out.

Thx. .