A while back I came across the pattern that was contained in one of the older versions for 4 barrel.

1 - A - Overlap
2 - B - Strong Single
3 - B - Pitch
4 - D - Four Barrel
5 - E - Closed Closed
6 - A - Elbow
7 - C - Double Shift
8 - A - Standard
9 - A - Standard
10 -D - Dual Horizontal
11 - D-1 -Four Point Combination
12 - A - Standard
13 - A - Standard
14 - A - Standard
15 - A - Standard
16 - A - Standard
17 - A - Standard
18 - A - Standard
19 - C - Drag Loading
20 - E - Wrist Throw
21 - C - End
22 - C - Snap
23 - D - Top Arc and Angled Line
24 - E - Automatic Snap

Difference between 12-1-0 and 12-2-0 in the most recent version are:

Component..........4 Barrel.....12-1-0..........12-2-0
3-Stroke Basic.....Pitch........Punch...........Pitch
4-Stroke Var.......Four Barrel..Triple (1/2/3)..Triple (2/3/4)
5-Plane Line.......Clsd/Clsd....Sq/Sq...........Sq/Sq
6-Plane Angle B....Elbow........Turned Shldr....Turned Shldr
7-Plane Angle V....Double Sht...Zero............Zero
10-Hinge Action....Dual Horz....Angled..........Dual Horz
11-Press Pt........4 pt combo...Double(1/3).....Triple(2/3/4)
15-Hip Action......Standard.....Delayed.........Delayed
16-Knee Action.....Standard.....Rt Anchor.......Rt Anchor
17-Foot Action.....Standard.....Flat Left.......Flat Left
18-Lf Wrist Action.Standard.....Single..........Standard
19-Lag Loading.....Drag.........Drive...........Drag
20-Trigger Type....Wrist Throw..RtArmThrow......Wrist Throw
21-PwrPackAssyPt...End..........Top.............End
22-PwrPackLoadPt...Snap.........Random Sweep....Snap
23-PwrPackDelPath..TopArc/Ang...Straight Line...TopArc/Straight Line
24-PwrPackRel......AutoSnap.....Non-Auto Sweep..Non-Auto Sweep


I don't have the book so I can't say if Homer called it Hitting or Swinging Pattern.

BUT the four barrel has more in common with the swing pattern than the hitting pattern.

Not sure if the above really helps, I can't but wonder why beyond the reasons stated the Homer would choose to remove this pattern. There must be something that makes this pattern inferrior to the ones he decided to stay with. Don't really know but I think it would be out of character for him to toss(push to the background,etc.) something that could be the best pattern to exist. JMHO.

Its too difficult for me...

Maximum Participation Pattern -- Third Edition
 

This Stroke Pattern was one of six in the third edition. It was labeled neither Hitting or Swinging, but instead, Maximum Participation (referring to the selected Stroke Component Variations).

I think that's why Homer called the Pattern you posted a "Sample Pattern" rather than a "Basic Pattern" as prescribed in the later editions.

Are you suggesting Martee, that Tom T. is referencing this pattern?
Just want to make sure we are keeping on topic.

Thanks

Actually this is in response to Deleware Golf's request
In doing so I have learned that in Fact Homer didn't refer to it as hitting or swinging pattern, but as 'maximum partipication' and yes they were sample patterns.

I was just trying to keep the topic focused.

Regarding Homer's version of "The Right Arm Swing", could someone explain how the right elbow in the bat position, could replace the left shoulder as the swing center? The ball would have to be positioned back toward the right shoulder in order to contact the ball before low point.

By Swinging with your Right Arm. Which means Pulling using the Rope Handle Technique.

The Right Arm isn't really designed to swing in the Golf Stroke. It is more comfortable pushing in a linear fashion, and actually a safer motion to perform in terms of how we're built.

Yes, ball would have to be positioned before Right Elbow (which is the stroke center, so low point would be directly beneth it) for ball to be struck before Low Point. This probably means ball will be back toward the right shoulder as you've said. Also remember that the right elbow is constantly moving forwards, and hence low point is also moving forwards also.

Discussing about the Right Arm Swing is great, and trying it out the range is good fun. But consistently playing with it? Not for me!

Tongzilla,

Hmmmm....the right arm swing in play is great...I won the golf tournament I was in today....the win came down to the last hole...par 5....right arm swing performed really well...Draw with the Driver off of the tee....sweet 13 degree 3 woood to about 110 yards from the hole...third shot pitching wedge to 3 feet from the hole....missed the putt for birdie...made par to win the tourney by one stroke.

You just don't go out to the driving range and expect miracles with the right arm swing...it takes about 3 to 6 months of practice and play to see really good results...forearm muscles need to be conditioned.

DG

The 4 barrel pattern from the 3rd edition is a SWINGING pattern. Standard Wrist Action, Horizontal Hinging, "End" assembly point, Wrist Throw, Drag Loading....

I would really like to see a 4 BARREL HITTING STROKE PATTERN.

DG

Fantastic to hear you're having such great success with the Right Arm Swing!

I would be excited to see what the Right Arm Swing looks like in action.

Tongzilla,

Checkout...any of the Tomasello videos...Jodie Mudd's swing sequence on Brian's website...watch Ernie Els(If you don't believe me just read his book "How to Build a Classic Golf Swing")....watch Retief Goosen...

The Right Arm Swing looks like any good solid on plane golf swing...there NOTHING unusual about it in appearance...

Once Bagger and Trig get the latest video of Tomasello up and running you will be able to see Tommy swing with this approach...it's the approach I'm using...instead of sweep loading like Tomasell uses, I use Snap Loading.


DG

Ernie Els is a great Swinger, but not a Right Arm Swinger. His Stroke Center is the Left Shoulder which gives a much longer Swing Radius.

Why is Els not a Right Arm Swinger? Because his Stroke Center is not the Right Elbow! So by definition he isn't a Right Arm Swinger.

Look at Els' Impact here:

http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/79626/1/2770246

Anyone who thinks his Stroke Center is the Right Elbow, please put your hand up!

Anyone who didn't raise their hand, and still thinks Els is using a Right Arm Swing -- you don't know what's a Right Arm Swing!

Tongzilla,

Wait until you see the Tomasello video??? Especially when Tomasello talks about illusions!!!

DG

Time Out
 

All right, guys. things are getting a little heated here. This thread is locked until we put the Tomasello-Dietrick Video up.

The video's are up and this thread is reopened for business.

DG,

Now that the video is up and we've had a chance to review it, Lynn posted that it is a left arm swing with the "magic of the right forearm". Do you agree?

Black Magic
 

It's a faulty left arm swing by default, because it isn't a right arm swing nor a hitting procedure. There is no initial shoulder thrust, but rather the right hand is moving the left arm. The hands are overaccelerating causing #4 accumulator throwaway and there is wristcock throwaway.

Miz,

Your points are clear on the Tomasello thread. Understood that you don't care for Tom's teaching. I want to keep this thread focused.
I started this thread to clear up confusion over the Right Arm Swing. DG has positioned that he uses it and uses Tom's teaching as a proof point. We posted the video and are now getting back to the subject.
I appreciate a variety of opinions as long as it doesn't get personal, for clarification we typically look to the book for the truth of the matter. In this case, we are seeking the truth in the Right Arm Swing.

Thanks,

Bagger

Bagger, thanks for you efforts.

I am not sure asking a question here or in the other thread is wise, but I will say this, it is quite confusing IMO the words being applied and the actions being done.

I understood the concept of 'feel' or 'feels like'.

From the parts I could quickly pick up on, what I say would best be described in TGM terms and a swinging motion, including the alignments during the stroke.

Without invoking the Tomasello video, what is the 'right arm swing' and how is it mapped to TGM?

Am I correct this is not a hitting stroke?

I answered a question you asked("Do you agree?"), on the subject of the thread(Right Arm Swing/Latest Tomasello video), and in a non-personal way.:???:

Mizuno,

No problem. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your contributions.

The question was asked to DG.

I have my opinions as well. They are rooted in 10-3-K and 7-3.
As for Tom, there's some very good stuff in his teaching and also some communications issues. We can take those up in the Tomasello thread.

Thanks,

Bagger

Just was reading this thread....

Wanted to point out that great post....it's true....it's true.

Save yourself the grief.....customize after.

Hmmmm...during the Tomasello video...did anybody see Tomasello demonstrate while hitting balls the actions described above...I surely didn't!!! Actually, totally the opposite!!!

DG

Right Arm Swing....period!!!

Right Arm Takeaway
Right Arm Trigger
Extensor Action/Sweep Release

The stroke follows section 12-13-0 like Homer had this stroke procedure in mind!!!

I truly don't believe Homer had a problem with Right Arm Swinging...

I can't wait for next years golf season!!!

DG

Back At Ya
 

Three statements, three responses:

1. There is no 12-13-0. If you mean 12-3-0, that Mechanical Checklist applies to all Stroke Patterns -- even 'X' Patterns -- not just Right Arm Swing.

2. Homer thought the Right Arm Swing was a "beautiful" procedure (but be careful with the elbow ligaments).

3. Neither can I!

Yoda,

Thanks for the correction...yes, I meant 12-3-0. And I don't have a problem with the other stroke patterns, please don't take it that way...I recommend keeping an open mind and trying them all.

Cheers to the 2006 season...I predict TGM and the LBG website will produce great things. Stay tuned...

DG

I can see where he's coming from.....I have tested it, and personally wnat nothing to do with my right arm pulling or swinging anything (mostly in the Start Down, I mean).....I like to feel the pull from the left side in Start Down, and use a STT (for most shots.....currently testing a slight variation- possibly using RFT- for wedges).

It feels more "anchored" and, for me, works much better.

Having said that though- you seem to be having some good results with what you're doing DG..... :)

Yoda,

Cochran and Stobbs came out with an updated verion in 2005. In fact, you can buy it Walmart online for $16

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=3341304

birdie_man,

It takes a major committment to change over to using a right arm swing...anywhere from 3 to 6 months of practice and play to see consistent desired results...it really works...I won the last tournament I entered using it.

DG

That's awesome DG. What handicap drop did you notice over the 6 or so months? I know Tommy said this swing can have immediate impact on your results as well. I've won a couple of tounaments, but to be honest they were rather small. Still made me beam tho ;)

Do you know what is updated? Or is it merely a reprint?

I suspect a reprint....just curious.

Old Lamps
 

Thanks, Palmreader, for information regarding this latest reprinting. However...

As there has been no revision of the original text, the information remains the same.

lol gotta love Pelz's little endorsement on the top of the cover:

"The only book of it's kind in the world."

....

Are you sure, Mr. Pelz?

Ya, that's right.....go use a SBST Stroke....

:D

Hi Delaware! I have been fully sweeping for a couple weeks, now!
 

Thanks for your post and what you said about power and accuracy is true. Sometimes, I roll the shoulder to sweep and sometimes I use the right forearm.

As long as my tripod is solid, so is the shot! If I move my head to peek, then I'm doomed. I find that a light FLW helps, too, and a slower than average motion.

Are there dangers to this move? I feel so relaxed while doing it that it reminds me of simply dropping the club straight into the ball. Where do you play your drives in your stance? My left leg is short by 1.5" so mine is a blade back of left heel.

I was interested in this method many years ago when I read Bobby Jones mention a Leo Diegel and Josh Swisher who used a "shut faced" method that allowed them to snipe at holes from great distances and kick his butt.

Of course, we know Jones, not those guys. Are you in Delaware?

Thanks.