LynnBlakeGolf Forums - The Right Arm Swing

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Re: More Tommy To You

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagger Lance

I have asked Lynn to reply regarding RAS release, but until then can we discuss other release procedures. There are many.

Tonight I reviewed the Tomasello-Dietrick tape in which Tommy discusses the move DG references. Interestingly, he never once calls it a Right Arm Swing. The essence of it is the Uncocking (Perpendicular Motion) of the Left Wrist, thereby preventing its Bending (Horizontal Motion). This is merely Lever Extension per 2-P.

Tommy does indeed talk about the move being Right Forearm motivated (from the Top) and views it as the antidote for Right Shoulder Turn Spin-Out. But, without his specific identification, it is impossible to determine if this is Right Arm Swing or merely the beginning of the Right Forearm's normal participation in either the Punch or Pitch Major Basic Strokes. Remember, the Right Forearm is the critical factor in each of the Major Basic Strokes, and it is under that Component (7-3) that the Magic of the Right Forearm is discussed. In fact, this is the term Tommy used to identify the move.

Also, Tommy's terminology (and demonstration) is somewhat suspect in that he several times refers to the Uncocking of the Right Wrist (as well as the Left). Lever Extension is a concept of fully Uncocking the Left Wrist, not the Right (which remains Level during Release as defined by the structure of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge).

So, whether or not Tommy is actually discussing Right Arm Swing is debatable. Which is not a bad thing, so let's do it! I'll send the tape to Bagger, and we'll put it up as the lead post in a separate thread. Then, with the caveat that the discussion will be kept civil and non-personal...

Let the Games begin!

Yoda,

It's the swinging stroke just like the Australia video....there is no demonstration of a full hitting stroke on this tape.

It's kinda of interesting that Tomasello just called it swinging in the Australia video....but both videos demonstrate a swinging motion that is right arm based.

Let's keep the competition on the golf course where it belongs...even Delaware Golf had a hard time accepting what Tomasello teaches on this tape after the first go round.....after a couple of viewings, it totally made sense and validated Tom's 1991 GI interview.

The video is approximately 30 minutes long.....it's Tom Tomasello in his Deer Track studio in Myrtle Beach....this may be one of Tom's last video's, you'll see why during the beginning of the tape. I was able to study with Tom privately for three days approximately 18 months later in October of 1993....with his sick wife; it appeared Tom wasn't teaching much if at all at this point. During my lesson with Tom, he talked about achieving goals....he read an excerpt from a journal he kept on his playing and teaching....in this one entry from 1983 he talked about his playing.....every time he hit the golf course he was shooting par or better.

DG

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizunoJoe

Bagger - 7-19-3 is done with the right tricep in the Right Arm Swing. Otherwise, it's just an ordinary 3-barrel inert Left Arm Swing.

Just watch the Tomasello video and listen to his comments about the right forearm. No mention of Triceps.

DG

DG - How is the right forearm moving downplane? You say the pivot responds to the right forearm movement, so something else had to get it moving. There are only 2 ways to move it in such a way as to start uncocking the right elbow directly from the Top - by cranking the right shoulder or right tricep thrust. But if it's the right shoulder with an inert right tricep, then that's just an ordinary 3-barrel inert left arm sweep release Swing with the mind in the right forearm rather than in the hands. The only thing left is the right tricep.

Just because he doesn't mention tricep doesn't mean he isn't using it.

The real tipoff is the elbow uncocking from the Top - how could that possibly be thought to result in the transfer of the swing center from the left shoulder to the right elbow which Homer says happens in a right arm Swing? The only way that transfer concept makes sense is to thrust the cocked right elbow to a fixed position and then let the momentum transfer uncock it.

Handspeed and Release Types

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delaware Golf

Handspeed is not an issue of hitting or swinging it's a matter of release type....I have to believe most TGM students don't experiment with all three.....in the book, Homer talks about mastering all of the release types.

Hmmmm how does a swinger generate a full sweep release with a full swing???

DG

Handspeed is important for Hitters and Swingers. Both have different ways in dealing with its slowdown during Release per my previous posts.

There are only two Release Types: Automatic and Non-Automatic. There I go again... :wink:

The swinger performs a Full Sweep Release by Triggering Non-Automatically immediately during Start Down, with either a Hand Throw or Right Arm Throw.

Just a few points

The Stoke Center for the Right Arm Swing is the Right Elbow. So Low Point is constantly moving forward in the Downstroke. If you want the ball to be struck before Low Point (which is the case for 99% of shots played, except the Lob Shot), the Right Elbow needs to be in front of the ball :?! I believe this is a dead giveaway for a Right Arm Swing.

Also, because of the Right Elbow Center (rather than the Left Shoulder), the Swing Radius is shortened considerably :( .

Re: Handspeed and Release Types

Quote:

Originally Posted by tongzilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delaware Golf

Your right Tongzilla....now read 10-24-A and 10-24-B and checkout what Power Package Release Homer uses for 12-1-0 and 12-2-0 then go back and read 10-24-A and 10-24-B again.....then watch the upcoming Tomasello video and see what conclusions you come to. Then we'll chat again....

DG

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizunoJoe

DG wrote, "The right forearm is pulling down while at same time the right elbow is uncocking outward.....".

The only way to pull the right forearm downplane with the right arm while at the same time uncocking the right elbow is by right tricep thrust. What other right arm muscle could do it? This immediately sets up a sweep release which means that this right tricep thrust is putting a radial force on the handle and not a longitudinal pull along the shaft. But this is the very definition of a Hitting procedure.

The only way to Swing with the right arm is to thrust the right elbow down plane to a late automatic release point at which time the right tricep is relaxed.

The motion of the right forearm is down and out on the plane angle....

DG

Re: Just a few points

Quote:

Originally Posted by tongzilla

If the right elbow needs to be in front of the ball with the right arm swing, then how was i hitting shots last night?

I don't understand what you wrote above. I was messing around with the swing Tomasello describes in his video and i was using a 5 iron. Ball was posistioned just inside myleft heel. I highly doubt my right elbow got past the ball before i hit the shot.

<---confused

Re: Just a few points

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim_0068

Right Elbow is Swing Center for the Right Arm Swing by definition. So Low Point is directly beneth it. There should be no debate about that I hope! Just Homer's definition. End of story.

So if your Ball was struck before Low Point last night, and your Right Elbow didn't get past the Ball, then whatever you're doing, it ain't a Right Arm Swing! So don't be confused!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagger Lance

...you can use longitudinal acceleration at start down 7-19 and release with loosened wrists and the 10-3-K bat procedure.

Yoda will need to help clarify...

The Minor Basic Strokes classify the various Arm Motions used normally in the Short Shots. Homer Kelley early on defined the Pull Minor Basic Stroke used for the Longitudinal, Centrifugal Acceleration of Swinging, i.e., you Pull the Clubshaft through Impact. Somewhere along the way, he realized he had no Minor Basic Stroke for the Hitter's Radial, Muscular Acceleration, i.e., you Push the Clubshaft through Impact. Hence, the aptly named Bat, a short, strong Thrust that is as pure a Hitting procedure as you'll ever see.

Now, it is true that Homer himself characterized the Right Arm Swing as "the Bat with loosened Wrists." However, their only similarities are the active Right Arm participation and the Right Elbow Stroke Center. Otherwise, the two Strokes retain their separate identities, poles apart on the spectrum that is Swinging versus Hitting.