hi Air

100x a day for 2 weeks & you are there

that's no huge deal if you think about it (25 swings 4x a day or 50 twice a day ?)

I know. :golf:

I Love Air-Taly, especially the food.
 

Keeerect. Reference post #420 for the Yoda Taly video.

The flying wedges ..
 

If I get the flying wedges right, does that ensure lag and the swinging of the hands (and not the clubhead)?
What's most important in this structure - the straight left arm and club working as a unite with the same RPM (or what it's called) and thus get the right rhythm, the lower right forearm coming into impact not completely straight yet, to both arms straight in the followthru .. etc.

I'd say that the flat left wrist with the vertical cocking and uncocking is the most important part. It is almost an end goal in itself.

But you need good rhythm to sustain it. The Right Forarm Flying Wedge will provide a structural rigidity to the lever assembly (or should we say the power package) that takes away motional freedom that can create a lot of mess. This will make it easier to find and keep a good rhythm.

You need to look, look, look, to monitor the flying wedges from breaking down. And if you enforce the flat left and bent right wrists throughout the stroke you can also feel the conflicts in your hands. Conflicts between where the clubhead is going and where the hands want to take it tends do be caused by problems with the rhythm. Then you can pick your poison. Let the wedges break down and have a flip. Or steer the clubhead. You are of course looking for a pattern where there is no conflict. But out of the course there will be strokes with some degree of conflict. But if it is of moderate character, steering by educated hands can bring the shot almost all the way home, IMO.

Rhythm is something you can and should be able to feel. When you have good rhythm there is a continous drag feel (lag pressure feel) from the club and also a smooth hinge action. No discontunities, no freewheeling, no snapping. It is a feeling of continous resistance.

If you learn to feel and monitor the rhythm you have a great asset in your toolkit.

And you do not only want to hit the ball with you hands, BTW. You want to hit it with your hands and the clubhead at the same time. Sccccccccccccccccmock!

Interesting as usual. Thanks.
To get the flyingen wedges right, I presupposed a FLW and a BRW. The rhythm you are talking about - is it in accordance to the definition in the book - and what Yoda is talking about? (Holding both lever assemblies to the same basic RPM thoughout the stroke while overtaking all other components at a steady, even rate).

Does anybody use - or would advise - to lower the clubshaft plane at the top of the swing as the downswing starts - a fall down, a little clubhead loop - in order to get a shallower and more in-to-out swing path into the ball?

Yes. I'm using the TGM definition of rhythm.

i think you are talking about shifting from say the turned shoulder plane onto or more towards the elbow plane, this is a legit TGM move i believe

That's probably it. I was also thinking it would be a way to go to make it easier to the rid of a OTT move?

I find it much easier to achieve a good rhythm on a lower plane. In the short game I sometimes go even lower. Very un-TGM like but it works pretty well for me.

It certainly doesn't hurt to try the elbow plane.

yes Air i think that is a valid obsevation, i would say it is harder to go OTT from a flatter plane - there is probably a good thread relating to that somewhere on LBG - where you would get better input than mine :-)

The slot swing
 

interesting vid Air, espec the bit about kids taking the club inside because it is heavy for them & then looping towards the plane line but still finding an attack/approach angle that brings them inside the ball not OTT

you might search for attack angle or approach angle threads & see where it leads ?

i may do the same later & we can compare notes

Wow, I'm speechless.

Why is that?

I'll have to do the first or the last of these 3 - don't think I can do the one plane swing..?

i'd guess because 'slot swing' is major position golf rather than alignment golf

Daryl's right of course

though the bit about why kids do what they do was interesting to me at least

I thought McLean demonstrated the movement down to the ball - just as much as a postion - and he showed 3 different ways to do it. No harm in that?

position golf is usually vague & TGM is precise, position golf just tends to say get here here & here & everything will be alright but there is usually no depth to the instruction & in my experience it doesn't help a great deal - HK said something to the tune of ''by making the golf swing simple you don't make it easier you just make it incomplete & it is easier to understand something complex than something mysterious & incomplete''

i believe the answer to not coming OTT probably lies in improved zone 1 (body) movements

Daryl or someone else might clarify, expand or (more likely) correct (my understanding is very limited as you know)

Somebody can translate what McLean shows in the video into TGM terms if they want - he showed 3 ways to do the downswing in motion - with emphasis on the delivery (line). Personally I would rather look at this / have an AI help me than just reading about it in the book.

I actually thought this was more about alignment than anything else. Good stuff. Haven't read the book, though.

The book I was thinking of was TGM. I forgot that JM also has a book on this subject, but I have no plans to read his book.

Impact
 

It's not my business or intention to promote this, but there's a lot of good and recognizable elementary stuff here and talk about alignments and teaching methodes that I found interesting. If there's some bad stuff here as well - please tell me what it is..

http://www.youtube.com/user/GolfTips...12/_6LoqIEhbMw

Angle of Approach Procedure & Right Forearm #2
Old 12-01-2007, 08:24 AM

YodasLuke
Lynn Blake Certified Master Instructor

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 1,290
great post

Originally Posted by gmoney_69
When using the Angle of Approach Procedure do I adjust my Impact Fix Alignments to place the Right Forearm On Plane with the steeper Plane required, or do I use my original Turned Shoulder Plane, in my case, Fix alignments and let the covering of the Angle of Approach dictate the steep Plane? I've researched the book and haven't found what I think are any definitive answers.

Per 7-2-3 the back of the Flat Left Wrist and the #3 PP both face down the Angle of Approach.

Per 7-3, "The "Angle of Approach" position of the Right Forearm shows the precise Cross-Line direction the Forearm must take through Impact." And, "The Right Forearm must leave -- and precisely return to -- its own Fix Position (7- "Angle of Approach" (regardless of the true Clubhead Angle of Approach)." I understand that this refers to visual Impact Point and Crossline direction of Thrust.

Per 2-N-0, "This 'Delivery Line' procedure completely replaces the geometric Plane Line (2-F) and the Target Line because these were established at Impact Fix (7- according to the intended Hinge Action (2-J-1) and Stance Line (10-5) requirements, and their control is completely automatic."

This leads me to believe I don't adjust the Impact Fix alignments since we're dealing with a VISUALLY Equivalent Delivery Line for the Impact and the use of the Angle of Approach is to guide Clubhead delivery.

But then, the Index refers to 10-5-0 for Angle of Approach Procedure where the book says, "The relations among Plane Line, Angle of Approach and Ball Location are constant per 2-N. Changing one changes all three and ususally, Plane Angle as well, but not necessarily the Clubface alignment (2-J-1). All can be synchronized by 'Laying the Clubshaft on the Line' (the selected Plane Line) during the 'Parallel to the Ground' (2-F) portions of the Stroke."

10-5-0 throws me off, which leads me to my question. I'm leaning towards using my original Fix alignments and letting the Clubhead covering of the 10-5-E guideline take care of Plane Angle. It seems to me that this would take care of any shifting necessary for steepness and still allow me to return at Impact to my Impact Fix alignments. 2-N-0 also tells me that "The orbiting Clubhead must maintain its visual relationship to the Delivery Line, per 2-F and 2-J-3, during all Twelve Sections...". What do any of you Hitters do when using the Angle of Approach Procedure?

Thanks.
..................

Until I met Lynn, NO ONE had ever been able to explain 2-J-3 to me in it's totality.

Your post shows a great deal of insight. I'll shed some light on some of Homer's comments about 10-5-E. Compare these comments to what's found in the book and see if they help to connect any of the dots. Then, let's talk again. Each of these random comments are taken from one of the Master's classes and are direct quotes from Homer.

"you've got a plane that's going to trace that line"

"It's steep, now remember. For this reason, you can't point at the line with the clubshaft. To point at the line with the right forearm, it's going to be a steeper plane."

"The original plane is gone - don't even think about it. It's totally replaced."

"This procedure is very upright."

"You're not concerned with the clubshaft."

"The clubshaft seems to be immaterial."

"It's not a true on plane motion."

"Actually, it's a vertical plane for the clubhead" (slight pause) "slightly inclined."

"It represents a clubhead plane rather than a clubshaft plane."

"Line momentum of the clubhead."

One of my original teachings in TGM was that it was the same as the original plane, but it was just an illusion that the clubhead was traveling in a straight line. Thank God I met Lynn, and he told me the truth.
__________________
Yoda knows...and he taught me!

For those less fortunate, Swinging is an option.

Angle of Approach Procedure: Just Say No
 

With due respect to the eloquence -- and accurate and important information -- of all parties in the quotes above:

Swingers with their Drag Loading Pattern (12-2-0) should totally ignore the Angle of Approach Procedure.

Hitters should explore it, but only after they've mastered the Drive Loading Pattern (12-1-0).

The two cited Stroke Patterns are structured so that moving from one to the other (Hitting versus Swinging) can be accomplished with a minimum of disruption to the player's Basic Pattern. Therefore, both Patterns use the Square-Square Plane Line / Stance Line Combination (10-5-A).

The Angle of Approach procedure described in the quote above uses that Square Plane Line (the Geometric Plane Line) to determine the new Angle of Approach Delivery Line. From that point, the original Plane Line becomes irrelevant. Hence, it is a procedure foreign to both the Basic Stroke Patterns.

Bottom Line: the Angle of Approach Procedure is For Hitters Only. And then only when you know you're ready for the ultimate sophistication in Golf. Until then . . .

Stay away.

:salut:

I see, I am way over my head in these matters. But for those involved, I hope this sets the record straight...:confused1

Whow?
 

I still don't know what the whow was all about. If you are still speechless, that means you won't say it either?

:sleepy:

Air,

If he is speachless he is unable to speak :laughing9

I guess the "position golf" argument was where he was heading though.

I think Yoda has previously stated that he doesn't agree with Jim McLean's take on the golf stroke. He was a guru a few years ago - I think he had good timing and came as an alternative after the age where everybody had their knees flying all over the place since they tried to swing as Jack the Ripper. But consencus nowdays seem to be that there are better alternatives. McLeans "arms tucked together" can't compete with Homer's flying wedges.

In any case this video was very relevant.

I thought he talked even more about alignments than positions. And that he had no method that the students should copy, but let each student have their own swing to work on -- it sounded kind of familiar - if you know what I mean...

A PGA tour player approached Ben Hogan and asked a question related to the back swing. "You don't hit the ball with the back swing" was Hogan's reply.

The Crossroads
 

And Homer Kelley told me . . .

"You can clown the backswing."

As he said this, he took the club back in a crazy, all over the place way.

But then, he realigned at the Top, and said:

"Hogan was right, the Top is the 'crossroads'. It separates swinger from hitter from hacker."

:salut:

That's very helpful.
 

When I learn to move while keeping my chest and head stationary, I'll worry about this! :)

ICT

Gravity
 

I've been watching some un-TGM videos regarding rthythm and tempo. There was a lot of talk about the role of gravity in the golf swing. How does TGM deal with this aspect?

Ben and Homer. Two grinders.

There's not much gravity in TGM Air,

The patterns are valid even in outer space :laughing9

Alignments are for ever and every where?

I think that most of the time, people talk in these videos about gravity when they really meant inertia... some mention gravity, as to "let the arms fall from top", that's a way to
suggest a feel. If all you were doing is let the arms fall, there wouldn't be any power in the golf swing.

I think there is something to be said about to work together with gravity and not against it - like pushing a child in a swingset. The MacDonald drills also work with gravity in how to swing the arms in accordance to which foot to step on. But TGM has its own definition of rhythm, so I guess this must be something else...?

McHatton feels that gravity is all you need. He says you can't add any more speed beyond what the forces of gravity provide. A ball thrown down from a tall building won't go any faster than one that is dropped.! So swinging, I guess putting effort into it might not be a good thing. Perhaps that is why a relaxed swing will often go over the green! So snapping the kinetic chain suggests effort. Trying to hit it further remains a mystery for me. I would give up on distance cept that bunker on no 4 and 18 keeps catching me. If only I had 5 more yards I could clear it and I would save 2 to 3 shots a round. Then if I could eliminate the inconsistency and perhaps make one more putt I would be scratch. I know that Ben Doyle says to plant the left heel with the force you would use to set off the silent alarm if the bank was being robbed. So perhaps the swinger can only maximize his effort in this move.