|
My words are straight from the book and are congruent with homers ideas I need not define the word produces or naturally it's you characters trying to prove homer wrong that should be worrying about clarity u talk about me needing to prove things u gotta be kidding
|
Do u really want me to get a dictionary and define produces or naturally, do you not speak English?
|
Gentleman please . Whip can whip it good. This thread is about him and his search for a pattern . Something that probably lasts a lifetime !
Enjoy the ride and best of luck in your tourney whip. Glad you're here . Glad HB and Bernt are here too . |
The distinction must be made between the centrifugal reaction holding th e face square To it's cog spinning around a poll horizontally vs how the people shaped golferr utilizes centrifugal reaction the. Ends switching the standard wrist longitudinal acceleration this is why u must cock the wrist and rotate the wrist to setc up longitudinal acceleration at the point if release the face is parallel to the plane line and it is seeking its cog which causes it to close towards its iine condition.
|
Quote:
|
However its produced you must ROLL.
I do agree the string experiment seems un human golfer like .. And I can't imagine it producing Horizontal a continual roll of the face for planar string travel. Maybe . I dunno. As an aside Ive never heard Lynn mention that this experiment showed Horizontal Hinging. Alex Sloan did write about it at one point. He said he saw horizontal ... but I don't know whether it was cone shaped horizontal and angled at the same time he saw or not. There would have been no rolling for that arrangement. I believe, its confusing stuff. Angled on a cone shape being the same as horizontal visually.
Ive been thinking about this whole "cf closes the face thing" while playing and practicing this past week and while looking inside at my own motion (for whatever that is worth) I notice: -I do set in motion the face roll. Intentionally although it has become feel , habit over the years. Once set in motion if left undisturbed it seems to keep going on its own. -I need to hold off the roll for vertical or angled throughout the shot. As if I was fighting some force that wants it to roll. Not sure if its a force HB or just the desire to roll my wedges over (love that rolling wedges notion). Rolling wedges being the most free flowing motion , a flail like action. Perhaps once constructed a flail wants to flail? The Wedges want to roll? Regardless of how it is gotten Rolling is a big key for me and for Homer . 12-3 22. DELIVERY LINE ROLL PREP . Where the only word italicized and capitalized in the whole mechanical check list is the word ROLL . Homer listed this in Section 6, The Top. To me meaning its an intention and one we should have for the downstroke . As if to say : "Where's the deliver line? Ok lets Uncock towards it then lets Roll down it. " Thats the sequenced release version that I prefer anyways. Most guys Steer the face , never get the Rolling thing happening , never compress the ball to the ideal as per chapter 2 drawing 2-c-1 #3 . So my conclusion about the whole discussion on cf and roll, is as follows... However its produced the face must roll or be rolled down the line. Hogans little baseball bat! Homers prime intention IMO. And furthermore , since we're right here. Theres the business of whether #2 is thrown out or pulled out by CF or maybe a bit of both. There's so much emphasis on delay'd firing that I think a lot of people never get around to actually really firing anything . Most guys , even good golfers don't get that uncocking as the main power producer can be done with vigour , that you can uncock hard! To my mind this relates to the second most important intention. From Top , Delivery LIne Uncocking Prep. 12-3 -21. You must intend to uncock down the line (and hard if hard is necessary). Velocity Power. 6-B-2-0. The club is designed with its one heavy end to produce tremendous whirling velocity, to switch ends, to be swung in the true meaning of the word. HB/Bernt please correct my physics here if I have the word velocity mis applied. The golf club when thrown for distance can really fly a long way , end over end. Further than any other instrument I can think of and Ive thrown em all. Hedge trimmer, leaf blower , hockey stick , television remote control ..... hmm not sure about a baseball bat. Anyways IMO when golfing a ball this same whirling action or whatever must be employed to create club head speed . Uncock it and hard is an intention! Sure delay it absolutely, but for golf sakes when the time is right do uncock it. . Throw it out! "Throw ", Homer to Lynn: " I called it a throw and its is a throw!" Throw out as distinct from Throw away. There is a tempo to it . Mike Austin "Step and Throw". Some may dispute this active throwout point with me . Done with a flat left wrist , rhythm (which requires rolling , yes the secret to a flat left wrist is rolling) it is powerful and consistent. Done with an "on line hinge action" (12-3 #39) its magically accurate. Sorry for the long post but one more thing . I believe the intention to uncock and roll down the line from Top begets / ensures / promotes the proper alignments requisite to do so. In other words 12-3 # 20, 21 and 22 the intentions as I call them automate proper lag loading ,wrist conditions , alignments at Top. 20, 21 and 22 promotes automates # 19! If your intention is to Throwout you will quite naturally Load in the necessary manner. Load and Throw. Like throwing a ball say. No need to think about how far back you need to take your arm back or whatever just throw the darn thing. "Downswing blackout" is not possible if you have an intention to uncock and roll down the line. 12-3 #21 and 22. Anyone wanting to goof with this start with an imaginary golf ball teed to chest height. Swing at it with the idea to letting the club go so it flies off down the fairway long and far. An end over end flinging. Notice how the wedges need to roll over . How this rolling over promotes or completes a full free wheeling motion. Have an intention to uncock and roll along the line from the top of your backswing and then do it , actively. See the line then uncock and roll along it. Then gradually lower your imaginary ball down bit by bit until you are on a more golf like plane. Now try this motion on a golf ball without reverting to your previous set of golf intentions. Uncock and roll down the line. Roll the entire set of wedges over not just the hands. Remove any difference between the two motions , see how at chest height your right shoulder gets involved. Delay is a part of it, so is Rhythm . Ted taught me the chest high drill , BTW. I read once that Hogan swung at chest height in his hotel room in the evenings . What a nut bar! Me I only dry swing in elevators or on the way to the can in the middle of the night or .. Wouldn't it be ironic if beautiful #2 angles and delay was gotten by trying to uncock rather than trying to not uncock. That would be just like golf. |
Ob once the club head crosses to the outside of the hands in the down swing c.f. takes over and uncocks the wrists and rolls them on plane with a horizontal hinge at this stage of the swing you must only be concerned with clearing the left hip to allow for the hinge and pivot lag
|
Quote:
See Lynns video on the left hand wrist uncock drill. This is not my epiphany I got this lesson at the swamp from Yoda . I asked him " Why didn't you show me this two lessons ago?" Answer " I have to save some of the good stuff". Hammer time. |
Well I guess that wraps up the c.f. discussion?
|
Quote:
I am always open to a better technique! ICT |
Yardages
Driver 310 3wood 255 Hybrid 235 4 iron 215 5 iron 205 6 iron 190 7 iron 180 8 iron 170 9 iron 160 Pw 145 50*130 54*115 58*100 5'8" 140 thats what c.f. can do hit a 373 yd drive today |
Bumpy this has been explained but take a look at Hogans swing in power golf at the same point u won't find much difference this was taken with an I phone who's camera cannot keep uo with the speed of the shaft which causes the subhead to look like it's way ahead of the shaft in reality it is not just look st where the left wrist is and draw a straight line from th e fingers that's where the shaft really is. My left wrist is turned to the plane and even with the ball this s an auto random sweep very near snap I am assuming you are criticizing these frames? Because they look pretty freaking good from where I am sitting. Compare to pros or o better yet compare to diane
|
|
It's all I could deduce from a one word reply of "reality" as in the distances I posted were fantasy and those stills were the reality. What u will find on the pea tour most often I believe is punch elbow few seem really into pitch but I really get into pitch elbow this in fact is what led me to the yellow book I noticed that my elbow looked drastically different from fine one of the stack and tilt dorks. I asked around no one had ever mentioned a thing on the elbow position. Hogan gets into pitch
|
bobby jones describing axis tilt throwaway passive right arm et
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7KKYw4AjiU
Homer wasn't completely blind going in he had the sequences of Hogan sneak and Jones and what they had written Hogan snead Jones not only could they perform the motion but they truly understood what they were doing without homers help me I never had it figured out til homer |
Quote:
|
Thanks fir your post where are you located?
|
Quote:
|
Cool I know a gsem from Indiana. Learn to drag the arms and hands with the hips instead if vis versa and u wI'll find more power remember power at first is much more important than accuracy if ur not hitting it out there change your approach don't worry about direction til u can pop that ball worth compression
|
Hitting it stupid far 6 iRon 220 drove two par fours over 315
|
these swings were from the start of summer the beginning of my 'total picture' courtesy of Homer Kelley and GSEM Greg Smith. I challenge you to find anything wrong with the swing, the hit not quite as solid but very good nonetheless. the swing is still more powerful for me and my preferred method. before it started raining was belting drives 370 plus at sea level 330 plus average no joke, no exaggeration. longest drive this summer 386 flat as a pancake, no wind at 140lbs that's what TGM can do, it's not about strength. my strides lately have been in the form of mental outlook on the course and perspective of the swing process. I can tell u that my journey through the golf swing has been half concept and half practice of mechanics,one without the other is useless.
swing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIes_-QSaO8 hit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KsuDdlb-wk i have a fresh outlook. I'm comfortable with my motion and know my tendencies, now I'm gonna own it. sometimes it's necessary to take a break from golf but what i find now is i'm never too rusty because i don't rely on chasing a feel, i rely on proper mechanics. As far as mechanics i have one word EXTENSOR yes it's real and yes it works, get it right and it will be the best thing you have ever done for your golf swing. |
I don't want you to think that I'm trying to get you down. I'm not, and I thought about not responding because I know you might take this the Wrong way.
When I first viewed the two vids, I didn't think they were the same person. The First Vid is a great swing but the Second vid is also a Swing. In Both Vids, the Clubshaft was Loaded. How's your Scoring? Are you compressing your Putts as well as your Full Strokes? That would be great. In the First Swing, You're inadvertently relocating Low Point to the Outside of your Left Foot (maybe you're doing it purposefully). This occurs Because your Right Shoulder is Forward. Widening your stance will move your Right Shoulder aft, which will relocate Low Point more Aft. Low Point is controlled by the Right Forearm Angle of Approach. Other than "that"....Outstanding Swing...!!! Perfect Compression. It's a Joy to hear and watch.  In the Second Vid, which is a Swing, indicates "Clubhead Throwaway". It's a good Swing but you're out of Sync. I think that the Pivot is the Root Cause. (OH YA, I looked at the Video a second time in slo-mo, it's definitely the Pivot). Weight Shift and Hip Action have separate identities. You cannot replace one with the other. Please tell us what Pivot Changes you made for the Second Swing. Stay with Swinging until you learn to use the Right Forearm Angle of Approach.  |
Please Look at the Right Wrist Bend in Both pictures and observe that there is less right wrist bend in picture #2.
Homer Kelly said that as the ball is played aft in your stance, that you use less Right Wrist Bend. And, the farther forward the ball is played, your Right Wrist Bend is Greater. This is because of Right Shoulder Location. When the Grip is created at Impact Fix, then the farther Forward the Ball is located, the farther Downplane the Right Shoulder. But as the ball is played a greater distance aft of Lowpoint, then the Right Shoulder -at Impact- and - at Impact Fix - is higher up On the Plane and so there is less Right Wrist Bend and a Straighter Elbow at Impact. The difference between Pictures 1 and 2 above, may be explained as simply as saying that you created your grip NOT USING Impact Fix for your Right Forearm Angle of Approach Geometry. Because of this, unwanted variation is entering your Set-up. Could this be true?? Are you Gripping the Club, then walking up to the Ball??? Absolutely, for consistency of geometry, the Grip must be aligned at Impact Fix, regardless of Lowpoint Location. However, there are choices.......Rather than moving the Ball aft in your stance, you MAY MOVE LOWPOINT FORWARD. AND, the great advantage to this, is that IMPACT CAN REMAIN opposite the Hinge while you GAIN a Forward Leaning Shaft. Moving Lowpoint Forward means that the Right Shoulder Location at Impact can remain the same as normal and so the Right Wrist Bend and Right Elbow Bend at Impact can remain the same as normal. We can REALLY SIMPLIFY this set of Alignments. Right Shoulder FORWARD OR AFT controls Lowpoint Forward/Aft (Use Stance width to control Right Shoulder forward/aft location). Ball Location (forward/aft) controls Right Shoulder Location UP/DOWN on the Plane and controls Right Wrist Bend and Right Elbow Bend. As always, Clubface Alignment at Impact Fix is strictly related to Low Point and the extent that Ball Location changes the Angle of Approach and Plane Angle. |
thank you for your input and your praise daryl but i think you are misrepresenting homers work with some statements. as i said, the second 'hit' is not my preferred method, my arm bends slightly at top and my elbow is probably still nearly in pitch but that is as hit as i get for now, don't wanna confuse the machine too much. I think you're really splitting hairs with the amount of right wrist bend both pictures are essentially dead flat left wrist. also you pointed out that my 'lowpoint' is at left foot not at left shoulder(outside low point) well actually that is just because thats the only point u can pause the video, if you could frame by frame it and go back one you will see a dead straight line down from the left shoulder, perfect geometry. if anything, i see a slight blend of twist and bump instead of bump then twist with the hips. But truly this is my motion, if i make that swing exactly as it is consistently scores will be low. Compare that swing to any pga tour player and i guarantee your gonna find stuff more wrong with most of their swings, except for hogan or nicklaus of course. better yet compare this swing to diane in ch. 8, you won't find anything different. draw a line from the clubhead to the left shoulder in the hit and its a dead straight line, if the wrist was literally flat like against a book, it would actually be slightly arched.
what i like most about these swings is the foot work, both impacts my feet are flat on the ground but also working, rolling not just dead. this took me two years of hitting balls under gregs supervision with bag stands on my feet, feet together or just focusing on their proper action. this is the first thing we worked on and for a reason it's the foundation for the whole swingmachine literally. my swing before TGM, NOTHING REMOTELY CLOSE feet jumping around, head dropping, swaying, bent left arm, bent left wrist, closed clubface wild hips, etc it was a nightmare i duck hooked every shot aimed 40 yards right I have to setup at impact fix, it just doesnt feel comfortable gripping and then stepping in. "Homer Kelly said that as the ball is played aft in your stance, that you use less Right Wrist Bend. And, the farther forward the ball is played, your Right Wrist Bend is Greater." --- WHAT PAGE IS THAT ON????? thats not in the book nor does it make sense. please don't state that homer said something in the book if it's not in there. wherever the ball is played that shaft lean will be different but the right wrist bend will not change as it cannot unless it is altering the left wrist which u should not if u want proper geometry. It's just like a pendulum or clock the left arm inline with the clubshaft swings down from its center point as one long lever once the left wrist is uncocked, as you can see in the first picture which was stopped just after low point the left arm and clubshaft are dead in line and on their way up slightly as they should be. scores are low and creeping lower but now its raining allllll the time playing the ball at low point with forward lean is incorrect geometry, also ball location should not affect your plane angle unless you are off plane or changing angle during release and impact |
You have a great Swing. As good as any pro. Compression is the key and you have it. You can sustain the line of compression and manipulate the same using a Horizontal Hinge. now you can learn to manipulate it in other ways.
Quote:
Wrist Bend I underlined the Wrist Bend sentence and color coded his conclusions. Quote:
I think he also mentions in the book that "Steeper" planes use less Wrist Bend. Also True. |
you are misinterpreting that section i think, if the left wrist is flat and the right wrist bent there is only one amount of bend in the wrist EXCEPT that the right forearm position changes the angle between the right wrist and forearm only because the forearm is changing not because the right wrist is bending more or less, also any possible right wrist cock could be right wrist bend prior to release. YOUR HANDS ARE CLAMPS the left wrist is flat and therefore the right wrist is bent however for someone like me who is deep into pitch there is not much angle between right wrist and forearm vs someone who is in more of a push position
also i disagree with your first part, playing the ball opposite the hinge (low point) with forward lean cannot be correct geometry as far as tgm is concerned, if it were correct the left arm and clubshaft would be dead in line perpendicular to the ground(if flat) NOT leaning forward the forward lean is a function of the amount the ball is played back of low point. you cannot move low point forward except with manipulation and incorrect geometry. low point is at the left shoulder socket, (lets not get into manzellas jive about low point could be anywhere DUH!) but the correct geometry for G.O.L.F swing is contingent upon left shoulder being low point. |
Ok..
I'll wait until you learn more. It's all in Chapter Two. It's all part of the "Geometry of the Circle". I don't want to fight. Have it anyway you want. Bye. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
also explain why a steeper plane would change wrist bend, i cant see that it would. nothing is personal for me and anyone who is a fan of the yellow book im generally a fan of |
Quote:
|
Quote:
compare the footwork here with luke donald pay close attention notice how he does not roll to the outer edge of his right foot in the backswing its as if someone is holding his foot on the ground flatttttt as a pancake, notice how he rolls in towards the left, but also notice that he does slightly get to the outer edge of the left foot going through, thats a no no. compare our footwork, i like mine better ;) no rolling over the edge right foot comes up a little later. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y51h8xAwkjU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIes_-QSaO8 |
Quote:
http://home.comcast.net/~peter.dilla...side_clip.html |
im gonna have to agree to disagree, i spent a long time gettting that OUT of my swing ( right foot lifting before impact) look at diane from TGM she looks like me not like freddy there. you have to realize also this is an iron not a driver my driver footwork is slightly different, earlier, more lifting of the right foot, the shorter the iron the flatter they both stay longer. the higher swing speed of the driver increases the torquing going on with the hips and feet causing them to lift sooner be a little more activated but they should still not be wobbly or jumpy and i prefer the right foot to be flat as long as possible for balance and foundation. the better you are balanced the more efficient the energy transfer of the entire machine into the ball. every component of my swing is at the advice of my GSEM coach and Homer Kelley and feet being on the ground is one of them. dont get me wrong though when i go at a driver (which i usually do) i look pretty much like freddy there
|
i have made huge strides in my mental approach, on course mental management, organization of on course data collection, better shot strategy. for some reason taking an extended break from golf has made me fresh and clear and now my mental game is at a new level. I have more appreciation for homer's genius all the time, we were lucky that he used his genius for golf, as he could have applied it to anything..."i have answers to questions nobody thought to ask" that's a special mind that could have solved just about anything.
|
Good stuff Whip!!!
|
thanks kev! have you heard about the milverine? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/techn...article608049/
hahahaa |
LOL!!! :salut:
|
Quote:
I'm a recent swinging convert and I have been studying the 'aiming point' discussions and practicing the right forearm angle of approach in the mirror - more stuff to think about... However, your instruction and vid above seems to naturally take care of those angles without much effort. My mind was free enough to focus on lag and PP#1 & #3. Just as you stated, my ball striking moved to the next level. Wow ! I may have to send you a bottle of wine for Christmas. Thank you ! BTW, I was feeling or seeing the ball move from left shoulder low point to front of right shoulder at impact ( head still). Of course it was the hip action that took me there but do you see a potential problem with this swing thought? It seems too easy..! Should my focus instead be on that right foot? |
Poetry in motion
Whip,
That is a beautiful looking stroke. Would you care to treat us with a down the line video as well? |
Quote:
the Authorized Instructor is vital to this difficult and complex process. Without the Authorized Instructor, comprehension is vague and mechanical assembly is easily misguided. "3-A TRANSLATION OF INSTRUCTION There is another type of translation to consider also--the translation of the instructor's instructions including those in the book. Only the correct translation can lead to the correct application. A procedure must make sense--Geometrically and technically, else the Translation is faulty. If properly translated and it still fails, then there is faulty execution. Never Move anything unnecessarily, nor farther than necessary, but allow for psychological needs and preferences too. Variations of the Variations are unavoidable but should fit in with the basic function in chapter 7. This book presents the "uncompensated" stroke as a goal, guide and progress report, not as the minimum entrance test...." read, 3-C, 3-D,3-E to further understand the translation procedures "crash" and "relative". this dtl video is slightly older than the face on and is not as good nonetheless it is quite smooth, no recent vids.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIes_-QSaO8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jfDkLvLg-U |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:03 PM. |